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funsway
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On a previous thread there was exciting discussion about the value of offering free (tax payer supported) higher education.

Here in Tennessee where the program started -- providing two years of college for each high school graduate, there is a new glitch.

One of the requirements was eight (8) hours of community service to be completed by the applicant prior to starting the school year.

The deadline is the end of July and less than 50% of the thousands of applicants have met this requirement.

There are more posted opportunities for service than the applicant total.

Thousands of applicants will now loose out on this chance for free education.

It seems that "desire" for higher education doesn't translate into any desire to actually do any work.

Maybe they can't read the application or count to eight or know how a calendar works. You know, second grade stuff.
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irossall
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8 hours? That wouldn't pay for your books ($25.00 an hour X 8=$200.00). Pretty inexpensive education. And 50% can't get off their butts to do 1 day's labor?
What the heck! Let the lazy collect Welfare and Food Stamps, they would not use their education anyway.

This is an excellent example why American is being flushed down the toilet.
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funsway
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Even worse -- I have learned that each applicant has been contacted by phone, email and text as to opportunities for service in their area and reminded of the deadline.

and they are looking for volunteer mentors to help them with any gaps in their basic education. Say what?

I guess educators (sic) admit that getting a high school diploma doesn't have any meaning either.

How much does a bull prod cost?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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irossall
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Why the Bull Prod? These people are brain dead. I doubt their comatose state of mind (from too much T.V.) would be fazed in the least. A bolt of lightening wouldn't get those lazy, future homeless, off their sofas and put down their crack pipes long enough to wipe their own Butt.

God Bless America! What other country would pamper and cater to people of this mindset?
-Iven
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Try being on the other side of it. As a private postsecondary school, our biggest concern is getting those who finally have the gumption to enroll to actually graduate. Then, we must find them a job and make them show up for work. Then DOE threatens to shut us down because the graduate won't pay back their student loan. Once was, I actually enjoyed my work...
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rockwall
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I just saw this posted on facebook by one of my wife's blind, former students in a discussion about this same topic.

"As someone who gets free tuition from the government already… It doesn't motivate me to take education seriously, quite the opposite in fact. I love learning… But even I have had to fight through the apathy of knowing that I could do the minimum amount of effort, barely skate by… Hell, I could fail a few semesters and still get everything paid. That being the case, it makes it a lot trickier for me to actually be motivated to do what I need to do… And I happen to be very excited, and eager to pursue school. I have many blind friends to get their tuition covered, no questions asked basically… Very few of them get their bachelors degree within seven or eight years, probably the majority never get it. Can you see why I might be skeptical of free tuition for everyone?"
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2015, funsway wrote:
On a previous thread there was exciting discussion about the value of offering free (tax payer supported) higher education.

Here in Tennessee where the program started -- providing two years of college for each high school graduate, there is a new glitch.

One of the requirements was eight (8) hours of community service to be completed by the applicant prior to starting the school year.

The deadline is the end of July and less than 50% of the thousands of applicants have met this requirement.

There are more posted opportunities for service than the applicant total.

Thousands of applicants will now loose out on this chance for free education.

It seems that "desire" for higher education doesn't translate into any desire to actually do any work.

Maybe they can't read the application or count to eight or know how a calendar works. You know, second grade stuff.


Not sure what the "glitch" is. The program (implemented by republican governor Bill Haslam) has requirements, and apparently some aren't meeting those requirements (yet). So? Are you saying the program is now accepting those who don't meet the requirements?? Or are you saying that it's wrong that those not meeting the requirements will "lose out" on this opportunity?

Also, from http://republic3-0.com/tennessee-promise......tudents/

"the program will be funded by $110 million from the state’s lottery reserves, along with a $47 million endowment created by the state General Assembly. Students are expected to receive an average scholarship of $971, in addition to existing aid from the state’s Hope Scholarship program. Students will also be required to maintain a 2.0 GPA and give 8 hours of community service per semester."

here's some additional info about the program...

Quote:
How is the Tennessee Promise scholarship different from the state’s currently offered Hope Scholarship?

Krause: The Hope scholarship is a merit scholarship and is awarded based on a student’s academic qualifications. The Promise Scholarship is awarded regardless of a student’s academic qualifications.

It is also being paid for with a net cost to the state of zero. Gov. Haslam is utilizing the lottery reserve that has built up over the years and is putting that into an irrevocable trust that now provides interest earnings. Those interest earnings fund the scholarship. It’s an incredibly innovative and fiscally conservative way to approach this issue.

How many scholarships can you fund with just the interest income from the reserve?

Krause: We are not funding a student’s full cost of higher education – it’s a last-dollar scholarship. The way this works is that a student would enroll in one of our institutions, and they would receive aid from Tennessee Promise after all other financial aid – such as Pell [Grants] and the [Tennessee] Hope scholarship. We fill in that last dollar gap. That results in a much lower expense to the state, and it leverages the student’s entire financial aid package.

Because we’re taking that approach, the Governor can make a really powerful statement that community college is free when you graduate from high school. For students who may not have considered higher education and were telling themselves, “Well, I just can’t afford college,” we can tell them, “You can afford college, and we’re going to help you.”

Is there a particular type of student that you’re targeting with this program?

Krause: Tennessee Promise is built for students who aren’t entering higher education at all. We are in no way seeking to shuffle students to a two-year college who may have been thinking they would attend a four-year college. This program is about capturing students who were previously leaving the education system after high school.

Tennessee Promise has several other features that make it unique, including a mentorship component and a community service requirement. What is the purpose of these additional features?

Krause: When we’re bringing in a diverse group of students into higher education who might otherwise not have enrolled, we also have to think about their success, and that has to do with more than financial aid.

We’re offering a wraparound set of supports in Tennessee Promise, and the first of these is mentorship. We’re asking communities to offer volunteer mentors. This is a proven model that several groups across the state implement already – for example, a group called Tennessee Achieves has been doing this in Knoxville for years.

The importance of the mentors cannot be overstated. To bring a first-generation student into higher education, you have to have help navigating the system.

We also require students who are participating in Tennessee Promise to give back to the community. The research shows that students who serve in their communities are more engaged and more successful, and it’s a great lesson to teach them – that while we’re engaged in assisting you in your higher education goals, we’re also asking you to give back.

The last thing we’re doing is requiring students to attend community college full time. This is an incredibly important policy decision. When students attend community college full-time, they without question succeed at a higher rate than a student who attended part-time. So if you’re a Tennessee Promise student, we’re going to ask that you attend full time, and the financial aid will allow you to do that.

But the Tennessee Promise scholarship only covers tuition and fees, not books or the cost of attendance. Is it realistic for students to meet the requirement that they attend full time?

Krause: It really goes to show how affordable our community colleges are in Tennessee. If you’re a student who has a zero family contribution and thus are receiving the full Pell [Grant] award, your Pell award will exceed the cost of a community college significantly. And the Pell award normally allows for the payment of books, etc. Our students who are in the most needy financial category would still receive other aid to assist with these other expenses.



Ron
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landmark
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I guess Bernard Baruch, Oscar Brand, Paddy Chayevsky, Shirley Chisholm, Ruby Dee, Abe Foxman, Felix Frankfurter, Oscar Handlin, Stanley Kaplan, Colin Powell, A.M. Rosenthal, and Jonas Salk to name just a few were all moochers since they went to college at the City University of New York when it was still free. What an awful thing to offer free education!
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2015, irossall wrote:
Why the Bull Prod? These people are brain dead. I doubt their comatose state of mind (from too much T.V.) would be fazed in the least. A bolt of lightening wouldn't get those lazy, future homeless, off their sofas and put down their crack pipes long enough to wipe their own Butt.

God Bless America! What other country would pamper and cater to people of this mindset?
-Iven


Can you please explain the connection between college applicants and crack pipes?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
funsway
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R.S. -- I am not "saying anything." Just posting something that might be of interested to those having an opinion on the earlier thread.

The opinions I offer are just that -- opinions, and they do not imply anything beyond my dissatisfaction in the entire educational process in the USA.

If I had any solutions or a hidden agenda I would run for office.

To me a "glitch" is anything that occurs outside of the expectations of the creators of a program. Something apparently is not working out as expected.

Perhaps the problem is a lack of hope of "success" whether one gets more education or not.

I am sure that in many cases students signed up from parental/peer pressure with little motivation in the first place.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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George Ledo
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I don't have a clue how the program is being "sold" to prospective students, but, from reading the above, I suspect that it's being "sold" as a way to get a higher education at no cost.

I attended a two-year college, plus two universities, for a total of six years, and didn't pay a penny of tuition. I had application fees, student services fees, and a couple of others, and I had to buy my textbooks, but I did not pay tuition. Back then, a lot of kids were doing this, and a number had full scholarships, but I think the difference is that we didn't think in terms of "getting a higher education," but in terms of "learning a career." IOW, the degree and the rolled-up piece of paper were a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Yes, we had some "professional students," and activists, and hangers-on, and parental-pressure cases, all of which date back to when the universities were first created during the Middle Ages (it's a fascinating read, BTW), but, for the most part, we wanted something on the other side of college.

I suspect that part of the issue here is that kids are not thinking beyond college to a so-called "better" job, but are happy with (or accepting of) what they see as their future. If that's the case, and if nobody tells them otherwise, why would some of them want to bother?
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funsway
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Good thoughts, George. Then why did they sign up in the first place? Even then they can withdraw the application.

I talked to a couple of students today and they seem to think the rules will change if kids do nothing. (both are on scholarships and don't need it)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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irossall
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2015, landmark wrote:
I guess Bernard Baruch, Oscar Brand, Paddy Chayevsky, Shirley Chisholm, Ruby Dee, Abe Foxman, Felix Frankfurter, Oscar Handlin, Stanley Kaplan, Colin Powell, A.M. Rosenthal, and Jonas Salk to name just a few were all moochers since they went to college at the City University of New York when it was still free. What an awful thing to offer free education!


To USE the education is one thing. To not take advantage in favor of a lifetime of public support is in my opinion, not only shameful, it is an assault against those who are working and paying the extra taxes to support the TRASH of Society.

Crack pipes? I forgot to mention syringes and bottles of booze.
Of course this is not all people on social problems but the numbers are too high.
When I was living in Oregon most of the people I knew were getting food stamps and a monthly check because they couldn't find a job. I wonder why I had no problem getting a job? Maybe if I turned on the tv more often and sat around drinking all day, maybe I could have let someone else take my job.
How selfish of me.
-Iven
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funsway
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A local news broadcast focused on the problem of several Community Colleges gearing up for the influx of students, and some 4 Year ones trying to create a program that will meet the State limitations.

Now they feel betrayed and in financial distress. They felt obligated to "up-size" when unprepared to do so. Others want the easy money knowing the many students will not complete the two year plan.

Either way there will be pressure to "let them in anyway" and complete the Service requirement later (yeah, right)

A neighbor said, "At least it will get Orin out of the house for a semester." He got fired from two jobs fro never showing up on time. Not sure how some college credits will help.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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rockwall
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2015, landmark wrote:
I guess Bernard Baruch, Oscar Brand, Paddy Chayevsky, Shirley Chisholm, Ruby Dee, Abe Foxman, Felix Frankfurter, Oscar Handlin, Stanley Kaplan, Colin Powell, A.M. Rosenthal, and Jonas Salk to name just a few were all moochers since they went to college at the City University of New York when it was still free. What an awful thing to offer free education!


"During a 1969 takeover of South campus,[38] under threat of a riot, African American and Puerto Rican activists and their white allies demanded, among other policy changes, that City College implement an aggressive affirmative action program.[7] At some point, campus protesters began referring to CCNY as "Harlem University." The administration of the City University at first balked at the demands, but instead, came up with an open admissions or open-access program under which any graduate of a New York City high school would be able to matriculate either at City College or another college in the CUNY system. Beginning in 1970, the program opened doors to college to many who would not otherwise have been able to attend college. The increased enrollment of students, regardless of college preparedness, however, challenged City College's and the University's academic reputation and strained New York City's financial resources"

Too bad. It appears that was the beginning of the end of a good thing.
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I'm well aware of that history--it coincides with my own college experiences.

The city made the choice to forgo revenue and transfer spending in order to placate the politician's cronies. They could have used the money instead to fund education. They chose not to do so.
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2015, funsway wrote:
Good thoughts, George. Then why did they sign up in the first place? Even then they can withdraw the application.

I talked to a couple of students today and they seem to think the rules will change if kids do nothing. (both are on scholarships and don't need it)


My wife and I are both educators in Tennessee, and she actually works closely with the Tennessee Promise and the Drive to 55. Quite a few students, (in the thousands) have already been cut from the program due to not attending both of the mandatory meetings required this last semester. I know many of the seniors in my area were cut. I really think those that have not met the community service requirement will also be cut. (One of my concerns was the possibility of lowering requirements if not met, such as what funsway quoted above). I know some schools encouraged their entire senior class to apply, hoping that a percentage would decide to further their education/training (it also covers vocational training) and knowing that those who did not take it seriously would be cut.
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