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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Is there an exradition treaty? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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balducci
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On Aug 14, 2015, Starrpower wrote:

And there are far more important things going on in the world -- like PEOPLE being killed -- that nobody gives a d*** about. Funny ...

I'm not sure I buy the "nobody gives a d*** about" bit.

Indeed, it seems to me that many various threads in this forum disprove what you said.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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It's true, people do give a d*** about people being killed. It just doesn't quite generate the same steam that killing a lion gets.
Starrpower
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Balducci, I was exaggerating to make a point. I think it's sad that people are more enraged by one old, tired lion than they are by the tragic, heinous acts being perpetrated against people every day throughout the world.
Gregor Von G.
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The problem is bigger. Is not only the killing of Zimbabwe's lion, that's the tip of the iceberg. The problem is that humanity is reponsible of the horrible act of extinguishing species.
millions of years of evolution thrown in the garbage for the vanity and the arrogance of humans.
Do some research, you will be impressed about the damage that humans have done and about how many species are totally extinguished or almost extinguished for the trophy hunting.
It is a crime against planet Earth.

And about the political tension in Zimbabwe in relation to extradiction, are Walter Palmer problems. I suppose that he knew the political tension in Zimbabwe. He must be responsible of the consequences of his actions.
mastermindreader
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On Aug 14, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
I like lions. I would hate to see them disappear. They should be protected. Someone who kills one senselessly and illegally should be punished.

And there are far more important things going on in the world -- like PEOPLE being killed -- that nobody gives a d*** about. Funny ...


So we should only post about things you deem to be important? PLENTY of people give a d*** about people being killed. There are innumerable posts about that here and it is literally all over the news every day. What makes the lion story interesting is that it is a newsworthy example of the disregard many people also have for the world's wildlife.

So no, there's nothing particularly "funny" here.
Marlin1894
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On Jul 31, 2015, balducci wrote:
Http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/......ountable



"Unfortunately it was too late to apprehend the foreign poacher as he had already absconded to his country of origin," Oppah Muchinguri, Zimbabwe's environment, water and climate minister, told a news conference. "We are appealing to the responsible authorities for his extradition to Zimbabwe so that he be made accountable."


"Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri said on Monday that Palmer's hunting papers were in order, and therefore he could not be charged.

"We approached the police and then the prosecutor general, and it turned out that Palmer came to Zimbabwe because all the papers were in order," Muchinguri-Kashiri told reporters."
LobowolfXXX
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On Jul 31, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, lunatik wrote:

For some reason, I don't think he'll be extradited to Africa.

Yes, I am also pretty sure that the continent of Africa will not extradite him.

Zimbabwe, though, is a different matter.


Had Zimbabwe extradited him, he would have been extradited to Africa.

Unless they moved it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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On Oct 13, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, lunatik wrote:
For some reason, I don't think he'll be extradited to Africa.

Yes, I am also pretty sure that the continent of Africa will not extradite him.
Zimbabwe, though, is a different matter.

Had Zimbabwe extradited him, he would have been extradited to Africa.

Unless they moved it.

Continental drift.
balducci
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On Oct 13, 2015, Marlin1894 wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, balducci wrote:
Http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/......ountable

"Unfortunately it was too late to apprehend the foreign poacher as he had already absconded to his country of origin," Oppah Muchinguri, Zimbabwe's environment, water and climate minister, told a news conference. "We are appealing to the responsible authorities for his extradition to Zimbabwe so that he be made accountable."


"Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri said on Monday that Palmer's hunting papers were in order, and therefore he could not be charged.

"We approached the police and then the prosecutor general, and it turned out that Palmer came to Zimbabwe because all the papers were in order," Muchinguri-Kashiri told reporters."

Here is a link that goes along with your quotes above: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/1......20151012

Some other excerpts from the article:

"Muchinguri-Kashiri said Palmer would be free to visit Zimbabwe as a tourist in the future but not as a hunter. The implication was that Palmer would not be issued the permits a hunter needs."

"The environment minister's comments immediately drew the ire of the animal conservation group Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, which maintained that Palmer had committed a crime and said it planned to pursue legal action against him in the United States."

"'The fact is the law was broken', said Johnny Rodrigues, the head of the Zimbabwe task force, which first reported news of Cecil's killing. 'We are going to get our advocates in America to actually see what they can do to bring justice to him.'"

"Two more people still face charges related to Cecil's killing. Both allegedly were involved in using bait to lure the lion out of his habitat in Hwange National Park so he could be killed."

"Wildlife hunting, which earned $45 million last year, is an important source of money for Zimbabwe, which is still recovering from a catastrophic recession between 1999-2008."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 31, 2015, lunatik wrote:

For some reason, I don't think he'll be extradited to Africa.

Yes, I am also pretty sure that the continent of Africa will not extradite him.

Zimbabwe, though, is a different matter.


Had Zimbabwe extradited him, he would have been extradited to Africa.

"Extradition is the official process whereby one country transfers a suspected or convicted criminal to another state or country."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extradite

"law : to send (a person who has been accused of a crime) to another state or country for trial"

Africa is a state or country?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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So are you saying that if I get sent to France, I'm not being sent to Europe?

If you can go to Zimbabwe without going to Africa, more power to you.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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I said "extradite" not "sent".

If you disagree with Merriam-Webster's definition, take it up with them. Also:

http://thelawdictionary.org/extradition/

"The surrender of a criminal by a foreign state to which he has fled for refuge from prosecution to the state within whose jurisdiction the crime was committed, upon the demand of the latter state, in order that he may be dealt with according to its laws. Extradition may be accorded as a mere matter of comity, or may take place under treaty stipulations between the two nations."

Now I realise you are the lawyer and not me, but I'm pretty sure Zimbabwe is the state with the jurisdiction. Also, pretty sure Africa does not have a treaty concerning extradition with the States. Individual nations of Africa might, certainly at least some do. But I'm pretty sure it is not a uniform treaty.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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I have no problem with the definition of "extradite," but I did notice that said definition includes he word "to."


"(used for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached and reached, as opposed to from):
They came to the house."

The problem with your analysis is that the dictionary's definition of extradite isn't inconsistent with Lunatik's; quite the contrary, in fact. If you're moving toward Zimbabwe, then you're moving toward Africa, as well. I didn't say or suggest that your usage was wrong; I suggested that Lunatik's wasn't.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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I'll just say again, Africa would not be the 'state' with the extradition treaty nor would Africa be the 'state' in which the individual would face prosecution. Zimbabwe was. Lunatik's intended meaning was clear, he was talking about extradition in the legal sense.

I'm not sure why you even replied to a 2.5 month old post of mine to nitpick in the first place, but I think I will withdraw. Better things to do etc. But I will extradite a fruit basket to you in North America just to show no hard feelings.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Jul 29, 2015, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 29, 2015, balducci wrote:


Walter will dedicate his next black rhino hunt in Cecil's name.


Knocked the wind out of me with that one. Ow.


Agreed.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
LobowolfXXX
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On Oct 16, 2015, balducci wrote:
I'll just say again, Africa would not be the 'state' with the extradition treaty nor would Africa be the 'state' in which the individual would face prosecution. Zimbabwe was. Lunatik's intended meaning was clear, he was talking about extradition in the legal sense.

I'm not sure why you even replied to a 2.5 month old post of mine to nitpick in the first place, but I think I will withdraw. Better things to do etc. But I will extradite a fruit basket to you in North America just to show no hard feelings.


Thanks for the fruit basket! I appreciate the adherence to my vegan sensibilities. As for the 2.5 months, well...I was on vacation. As for the nitpicking...kind of what started the whole thing.

I do agree that Africa isn't a state, though. Or a country. And that he wasn't extradited by Africa. I'll extradite you Blue Jays flag to North America, and a wish that your North American team beats Kansas City and gets to the World Series!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew......bwe.html

"Biggest elephant killed in Africa for almost 30 years brings back memories of Cecil the lion
Exclusive: German hunter pays nearly £40,000 to shoot one of the largest elephants ever seen in Zimbabwe, while conservationists and safari guides mourn the loss of ‘magnificent’ animal"

Well, at least we can bash someone from a different country for once.
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