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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
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On Aug 5, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Why is it so black and white with you? Marketing isn't black and white yes or no. It's a huge grey area and what works for one won't work for another.
Josh
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
True which is why I said for me it is the way to go. That kind of my point Mindoro.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7565 Posts |
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On Aug 5, 2015, gman wrote: I wouldn't necessary compare these two types of customers. I think that directors of preschools and daycares act a little differently than the typical birthday party mom. Whereas a birthday party mom might have more time to search out options and prices, some directors of daycares and preschools are busier when making that decision, and will likely look at less websites (make the decision quicker). Also, because one type of customer is spending their own money vs. the other type of customer who is spending a business's money (or who has been assigned an information gathering / decision making role, and often just wants to get it over with). The preschool or daycare market likely doesn't have time to read a long-form sales letter. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
Exactly, that's why I said different performance markets, consumer vs. professional and different price points can all be different with different expectations.
As for this: "I should also mention that I find it hilarious that Mindpro, who thinks so lowly of the kids performer is the one with the most opinions on how to market to daycares haha" You have some complex about this incorrect belief. I do not think lowly of kids performers but rather have a full and complete understanding of the reality of kids performers (especially magicians), their beliefs, perceptions and realities (as well as those that hire and book them). I work with more kids performers than almost anything else. I have booked about 1/3 of all of our bookings in and with kids entertainers. One of the greatest misperceptions in entertainment is that daycares would be any different than any other market an entertainer chooses to target. There is much more black and white than grey area in reality. Its those that fail to understand this that struggle the most with the reality of it all. It just like right and wrong, which we all should have learned as kids. Anything other than right is usually wrong with rare exception. These are foundational principals that business should be based on. If one struggles with these most basic understanding of foundational principals, people skills and the psycoloigical understanding of prospects and their booking process and mentalities, they are setting themselves up to struggle and fail. |
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gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts |
Um, I think we are getting off topic here. I plan to use both offline and online marketing. This isn't about which is better. I do appreciate all the comments regarding this post.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
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On Aug 5, 2015, gman wrote: That is fine and of course you are entitled to you opinion. I think you are buying into misperception and that we may have a differing definition of what "success" is based on your above quote. It's not just about "getting a booking", it is about a much largere picture and how it pertains to the customer. Sure an online form or method of booking can result in bookings, no doubt, but it's th LTV and true satisfaction of the purchaser's transaction that is of what I am speaking. Not that of just the entertainer. Also your line about " I plan to use both offline and online marketing. This isn't about which is better" is strongly also disagree with. It really is about what produces the best and precise desired results AND creates happy, satisfied customers and relationships. So while I appreciate your beliefs I will bow out of this with such attitudes and perspectives firmly in place. I thought your were seeking advice, insight and information. |
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gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts |
MindPro: I was seeking advice and I do appreciate what you are saying. Please don't misunderstand, both online and offline have their place. They are marketing tools that is all. Many of the Preschools that I have done were contacted with offline marketing, and they went onto my sites to check me out, and then contacted me via email. I believe that both can be equally important and that if a person wants repeat bookings or to build a relationship with the client there should be some sort of offline communication.
Just because I choose to use both marketing tools doesn't mean I am closed minded to what you are saying. You make valid points. |
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gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts |
Donald you are right they are directors and mothers are different, but think of it this way the director's by me get at least 5 mailings a day from magicians looking to do some sort of show for the center. Now if they are all saying basically the same thing for example a letter or postcard that states "How to have the best in house field trip" or "Discover the Secret To Having The Best In House Field Trip Ever!" then goes on to describe how their show has lots of audience participation and lots of comedy or belly laughs, then how does the director tell them apart.
The key point I was trying to make is that if we are all the same then what does the director base his or her hiring on? Danny said it best...price. My thought was to start a conversation on coming up with other ideas than the ones I used above or similar. I hope this clarifies things. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7565 Posts |
The simple answer is, don't use a Dan Kennedy / Dave Dee style of sales letter (headline with "How to..." or "Discover the Secret..." or "8 Ways to Make...", etc., & don't do a special report, etc.) That's one way to be different.
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
I consider Donald an expert with mailing and calling prospects, and I was about to ask him this, nowadays can much of the mailing be replaced with online material?
If it was me and I had a good looking website, I would call daycares and simply ask if it was possible for them to check out my new site. Let them know you will call back in a week. I’ve never believed that prospects sit around searching for things to buy unless they are motivated to do so. But I’m fully convinced that they do search online for you once they find out about you. A site is like a silent reference. Nowadays many will think it odd that you don’t have some type website. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7565 Posts |
One performer I knew (who did a lot of daycare / preschool shows) used to do calls and then faxes (a single page fax), when faxes were more popular than email.
Another performer does calls and then sends emails. Another performer does mailings first and then calls to follow up. Still another performer I know does mailings, and waits for the customers to call him. That's the most passive method, of the ones I mentioned above, because there are no outgoing calls. No calling them first (to qualify, or get the right contact name), and no follow up call (to see if they are interested, to get them to take a second look at the mailing, to ask for the sale, answer objections, etc.) I would imagine that the most effective campaign would be call-email-call, or call-mail-call. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
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On Aug 5, 2015, JoshLondonMagic I just checked Yelp to see if my business was listed there. Not surprisingly, it was not. Somehow, I don't feel any the lesser, as my business model does not rely on Yelp. It is not a product that is sold in a manner that would lend itself to Yelp. Any efforts I would take to ensure that my business was present on that website, would be efforts spent better elsewhere. Once someone calls and says they read your reviews on Yelp, I believe you are already a bit behind from a negotiating perspective, regardless of whether they like the review or not. I would think that one would want to develop their business to a point where they are fielding few, if any of these types of calls. I can see where Yelp would come into play for a business like Danny Doyle's where potential patrons are looking to Yelp for reviews, but not clients. |
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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
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On Aug 5, 2015, charliecheckers wrote: Ok.
Josh
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MrJay New user 40 Posts |
I just want to add my 2 cents here, its a rarity that I do, should more often. But Tom Some years ago I bought your book directly from you and consider it the bible. Anytime I need to get some information I still revert to it.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Tom, how can your book be purchased?
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
MrJay, thanks for the kind words.
Mike, ebay is about the only place to get it nowadays. I list a copy there ever once and awhile. Thanks Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Thanks Tom. You are the king of daycare center marketing.
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Tom,
Years back when I was marketing my services in Parenting Magazines, I would get tons of calls to perform at Day Care Centers. Because of my day job, however, I could only work a few of these shows here and there. Since then, I moved up the corporate ladder and don't have the down time to take off and work this particular market. So Tom, here's my question to you. I would think that this particular market (Day Care Centers) is oversaturated with magicians much like the birthday party market is today. Would you say that's true? I am by no means saying that a particular entertainer can't make a name for him or herself if they have a gimmick of sorts. Still, I do believe the Day Care Center is the first line of attack on the magic food chain for newbies trying to make a living in magic. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks, Gerry |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
Hey Gerry,
Oversaturated in some areas I am sure, but in most it’s probably not as much as you think. Believe it or not there are not as many working magicians as most think. During the 19 years I owned a daycare center, I had no more than two calls about doing a magic show. You magicians are more unique than you think. True, beginners do try booking the daycares thinking it will be an easy show to do. But you and I both know that doing kidshows is not for everybody and can be a very tough audience. But the way I see it, any professional doing kid shows should be in good standings with the local daycare centers. Every kid there has a parent and when the parent is looking for some type activity for the child they usually ask another parent, or the daycare teacher. Their friends that will be invited to the event most likely go to the same daycare. Parents talk to each other often. Like any business looking to make a purchase, the daycare center, had much rather do business with the local that they already know about. When a daycare has to search for a magician, or has to hire an outsider, it means the local magician is not doing a very good job with his marketing. If you want to do well in the local kidshow market you need the daycare centers. Don't pass them up thinking that they can't be of help to you. I have always said that the daycare centers should be the lead generating headquarters for the magician. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Thanks Tom.
I have no doubt that DayCare Centers are great lead generators. Gerry |
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