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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Solution - The Easiest, Fastest Memorized Deck Ever - by Atlas Brookings and Raven Gairloch (53 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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Yes, you are missing something. The "secret identities" are associated with the numerical positions of the cards. When you know that a certain card is 45, for example, you know that the next card is the one associated with 46.
SittinDuK
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Some memorization systems use names for the cards that key the numbers as well to help you remember the cards but with the system Atlas is releasing I doubt you memorize things as much as you know them based on the system he's created.
mastermindreader
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Continuation of my previous:

...That said, while there have been innumerable stacks invented over the decades, I've yet to see any that had any significant advantage over the original Nikola system. Yes, it requires facility with the peg system of mnemonics, but that is a skill that is incredibly useful in ALL areas of mentalism, not just card work. And it's not the least bit hard to learn. As Jan noted, you just have to refresh your memory periodically- and that only takes a few minutes after you have mastered the system. (Note that I don't use Nikola's alpha numeric system, but instead use, and highly recommend, Harry Lorayne's. Without a doubt, his works on mnemonics are among the most important books I've ever read in the field and I highly recommend them.)

The advantage is clear- someone names a card and you instantly know its position. They name a position, and you instantly know the card- no calculations or mental gymnastics required.

Yes, it may be "hard" to learn initially (not really though), but as Henry Hay once wrote- "Sometimes the hard way IS the easy way."

And, as I've said, learning the peg system will reward you a hundredfold in your journey as a mentalist.

Good thoughts,

Bob
Atlas
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2015, Lemniscate wrote:
You said beginning of October, right Atlas? Are there any more details? Please just yell at me if you already offered more and I somehow missed them in the thread.

Thanks,
Lem


Nope, you haven't missed anything else - just working on writing it up.

Best,

Atlas
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Quote:
On Aug 15, 2015, SittinDuK wrote:
For what it's worth the Joyal Stack is what got me finally on the road to memdeck work. Having something that finally clicked I found I was over the hump and could memorize any deck. Hopefully this stack from Atlas can be a gateway for more guys to get started down a fascinating road!

Have you written up any simple routines to go with it Atlas? I've got a few pieces I adore using that are great for starting with stacks.


Yes, there will be routines written up with it as well - and yes, it is a fascinating avenue of mentalism to explore.

Best,

Atlas
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On Aug 15, 2015, ddyment wrote:
SittinDuK wrote:
Quote:
For what it's worth the Joyal Stack is what got me finally on the road to memdeck work. Having something that finally clicked I found I was over the hump ...

This is an instructive story: it's always good to be reminded that there are different approaches to memorizing a full-deck stack, and what works well for one may not do so for others. Whichever of the four memorization techniques we ourselves use, it is wise to be familiar with the others, in order to help those who are struggling, and may be unaware of alternate approaches.

Looking forward to seeing what Atlas has come up with.


This is a great post with a great link with great information. There are a lot of ways to approach putting a memorized deck in your head, and Doug's link is an excellent read.

Best,

Atlas
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On Aug 17, 2015, Lencano77 wrote:
Hello Atlas,

Looks interesting, can you tell a little about the ways you can get into the stack?
For instance from new deck order?

Best,
Kevin


Hi Kevin,

This isn't something I've explored because it hasn't been necessary in my experience.

Best,

Atlas
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On Aug 18, 2015, SittinDuK wrote:
Some memorization systems use names for the cards that key the numbers as well to help you remember the cards but with the system Atlas is releasing I doubt you memorize things as much as you know them based on the system he's created.


You do indeed memorize them, but it happens as a result of the system. I no longer need to do any work on it and haven't since probably the fifth time I made the deck up.

Best,

Atlas
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Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:

And, as I've said, learning the peg system will reward you a hundredfold in your journey as a mentalist.

Good thoughts,

Bob


I fully agree that learning approaches to memory work is an excellent and useful endeavour and I think anyone who knows me recognizes that I have no issues at all with memorizing things that may appear daunting. I advocate for those types of approaches. But I also believe that some tasks are made more difficult than they need to be and, as Paul mentioned above, this really is a simple and straightforward approach to memorizing a deck in minutes - not hours or months.

Best,

Atlas
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I've been discussing this topic with Jan before, and still I do believe that there are people for whom e.g. the brute force method Tamariz suggests doesn't work, no matter how much time, dedication and sweat they put into it; so I always vouched for different approaches, even systems that allow you to only deduce (in the first place) a given card at a number (or vice versa) by means of a formula or a peg system.
Because even with those systems sooner or later you get the 2nd identity down cold if you only use the MD often enough.

And I always ask: what's the difference between a genuinely mixed deck that I hammer into my mind by brute force and another (apparently mixed) deck that is built up following some algorithms that you will not need later one but which you might be thankful for having built-in as backup?
The Mati Envelope
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Atlas
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On Aug 18, 2015, Nicolino wrote:
I've been discussing this topic with Jan before, and still I do believe that there are people for whom e.g. the brute force method Tamariz suggests doesn't work, no matter how much time, dedication and sweat they put into it; so I always vouched for different approaches, even systems that allow you to only deduce (in the first place) a given card at a number (or vice versa) by means of a formula or a peg system.
Because even with those systems sooner or later you get the 2nd identity down cold if you only use the MD often enough.

And I always ask: what's the difference between a genuinely mixed deck that I hammer into my mind by brute force and another (apparently mixed) deck that is built up following some algorithms that you will not need later one but which you might be thankful for having built-in as backup?


Read Doug's link - it is a very well considered piece of writing. In one portion, he contends:

"Occasionally one reads disparaging remarks about algorithmic and rule-based solutions, claiming that they are not “real” memorized decks. This is uninformed nonsense (and a common consequence of confusing the organization of a stack with the issue of whether or not it is memorized). A memorized deck is simply that, and that alone … one in which the practitioner knows the positions of all 52 cards; the method initially used to learn the card name/position relationships is irrelevant. With any approach, translations made while one is still learning the stack will be too slow for some effects (though perfectly sufficient for many others). It’s certainly true that in the case of an algorithmic solution, one can simply learn the algorithm and never actually memorize the stack (this, in fact, is one of the benefits of this approach), but then it’s not really a “memorized deck”."

The subsequent paragraph makes another interesting point, but I think posting it here might not be appropriate.

Best,

Atlas
Rolyan
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I look forward to this, if only because I love reading anything and everything to do with magic (generic term to include all branches).

We all learn differently and have different requirements. I've struggled with TT but I know someone who recently learned 2/3 within 48 hours.

I also know of many a learned performer who has pontificated on the benefits of all the different stacks, particularly the difficult ones, but who have then been fooled badly with S* S*******, repeatedly, over several effects.

Easy v difficult and simplest v complicated, the answer (as ever) is it depends!
pnielan
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Hi Mr Cassidy,

Great to have you posting here. Think we are saying the same thing.

My only disagreement with Jan was that it isn't "by accident" that the secret identities are numerals from 1:52, it's by purposeful design (as you point out below).

Paul

Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Continuation of my previous:

...That said, while there have been innumerable stacks invented over the decades, I've yet to see any that had any significant advantage over the original Nikola system. Yes, it requires facility with the peg system of mnemonics, but that is a skill that is incredibly useful in ALL areas of mentalism, not just card work. And it's not the least bit hard to learn. As Jan noted, you just have to refresh your memory periodically- and that only takes a few minutes after you have mastered the system. (Note that I don't use Nikola's alpha numeric system, but instead use, and highly recommend, Harry Lorayne's. Without a doubt, his works on mnemonics are among the most important books I've ever read in the field and I highly recommend them.)

The advantage is clear- someone names a card and you instantly know its position. They name a position, and you instantly know the card- no calculations or mental gymnastics required.

Yes, it may be "hard" to learn initially (not really though), but as Henry Hay once wrote- "Sometimes the hard way IS the easy way."

And, as I've said, learning the peg system will reward you a hundredfold in your journey as a mentalist.

Good thoughts,

Bob
pnielan
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Hi Mr Cassidy,

Great to have you posting here. Think we are saying the same thing.

My only disagreement with Jan was that it isn't "by accident" that the secret identities are numerals from 1:52, it's by purposeful design (as you point out below).

Paul

Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Continuation of my previous:

...That said, while there have been innumerable stacks invented over the decades, I've yet to see any that had any significant advantage over the original Nikola system. Yes, it requires facility with the peg system of mnemonics, but that is a skill that is incredibly useful in ALL areas of mentalism, not just card work. And it's not the least bit hard to learn. As Jan noted, you just have to refresh your memory periodically- and that only takes a few minutes after you have mastered the system. (Note that I don't use Nikola's alpha numeric system, but instead use, and highly recommend, Harry Lorayne's. Without a doubt, his works on mnemonics are among the most important books I've ever read in the field and I highly recommend them.)

The advantage is clear- someone names a card and you instantly know its position. They name a position, and you instantly know the card- no calculations or mental gymnastics required.

Yes, it may be "hard" to learn initially (not really though), but as Henry Hay once wrote- "Sometimes the hard way IS the easy way."

And, as I've said, learning the peg system will reward you a hundredfold in your journey as a mentalist.

Good thoughts,

Bob
CL
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HI Atlas. Looking forward to this. When its ready, do you expect it to sell on Penguin or should be make sure to be on your list?
Dan McLean
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Here's another way to memorize a deck.

Get yourself an obsessive/compulsive personality and stare at a deck sequence that someone you trust swears is based on a system and try and figure out the system.

I've been doing that for days now with Atlas's Solution. I figure when he finally publishes it, I'll have the whole deck memorized. ;>

Looking forward to it, sir. I use the 6 hour system but I just have to get yours to see what you've come up with.

D
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Quote:
On Aug 19, 2015, pnielan wrote:
Hi Mr Cassidy,

Great to have you posting here. Think we are saying the same thing.

My only disagreement with Jan was that it isn't "by accident" that the secret identities are numerals from 1:52, it's by purposeful design (as you point out below).

Paul

Quote:
On Aug 18, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Continuation of my previous:

...That said, while there have been innumerable stacks invented over the decades, I've yet to see any that had any significant advantage over the original Nikola system. Yes, it requires facility with the peg system of mnemonics, but that is a skill that is incredibly useful in ALL areas of mentalism, not just card work. And it's not the least bit hard to learn. As Jan noted, you just have to refresh your memory periodically- and that only takes a few minutes after you have mastered the system. (Note that I don't use Nikola's alpha numeric system, but instead use, and highly recommend, Harry Lorayne's. Without a doubt, his works on mnemonics are among the most important books I've ever read in the field and I highly recommend them.)

The advantage is clear- someone names a card and you instantly know its position. They name a position, and you instantly know the card- no calculations or mental gymnastics required.

Yes, it may be "hard" to learn initially (not really though), but as Henry Hay once wrote- "Sometimes the hard way IS the easy way."

And, as I've said, learning the peg system will reward you a hundredfold in your journey as a mentalist.

Good thoughts,

Bob


Paul, I wrote "by accident" to make clear that we talk about secret identities, not learning an order, that's all. Of course it makes sense that the identities are numbers from 1 to 52... But in one Stack the AS might have the identity of 6, in another 20, it doesn't matter. Not to confuse you, but I use sometimes even higher secret identities (e. g. 104 Smile )....

The secret identities (ignoring an used order of a memorized deck) allow you to stack your deck however you want, e. g. not from 1 to 52, but e. g. 1, 3, 5, 7... 51, 2, 4, 6 ... 52. This is was I meant. If you think to learn an order only you simply jump to short. Jan
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fadattf
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I haven't been disappointed by any stuff Atlas has released.
I'm looking forward to it.
Atlas
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On Aug 19, 2015, CL wrote:
HI Atlas. Looking forward to this. When its ready, do you expect it to sell on Penguin or should be make sure to be on your list?


You'll need to be on my list - if you send me a PM, I'll make sure you get an email.

Best,

Atlas
Gairloch
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HI all,

Sorry I'm a little late to the party, nice to see it's been very busy over the last few days since its announcement.

I'm the other half of The Solution, so I thought I'd give my slant on things and hopefully provide a few answers to questions I've seen floating around.

Firstly as many of you will know, this is a MD, which enables you to know the position of every card. What Atlas and I have created is an elegant (if I do say so) and logical solution to the biggest problem many people have with an MD, that is struggling to learn it.

The solution we have produced allows you to learn the order in a very short time and be out using it and practicing with it, which is really where committing all of the intricate details to the deck becomes incredibly easy. The best way to learn something is to be using it/doing it.

As with all MDs there are a number of built in features which allow you to perform numerous routines, I have no doubt you will additionally come up with your own too.

One of the other advantages to the deck is the logicality allows you to check you have the correct card in mind. Even if you've not used it for a while, it allows you to work out which card is at a given position for instance.

The other thing people have asked and I have alluded to is the ability to be able to recall a number position of a card given a named card and vice versa. You can also know what the next card is given a card before or after it.

The deck is also deceptively mixed when displayed, in fact I have been confident enough to give the deck away, knowing that they will not see a pattern within the deck.

Any more questions, myself or Atlas will get back to you and I look forward to getting an exact release date to you soon.

Raven Gairloch
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