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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Epique - A Mental Epic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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nique
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Hi everyone,

Nique Tan from Singapore here. Am about to release my take on mental epic; this handling is done with just three 4x6 index cards and a China marker/grease pencil, and will play for small stage shows.

I have had it reviewed by the likes of Marc Paul and Ken Dyne; some other reviewers on the way include Elliott Bresler as well as Jheff. I will post their reviews once I've got them all.

In addition, I wish to send out 3 more copies for members here to review. In return, I only ask that you provide me feedback on the material, and if you could comprehend the ebook without much problems.

If you can spare me the time to go through my PDF, post in this thread something like a "pm'ed you!"; in this way once there are three posts below this, that would indicate to others that the 3 copies have been taken up. Of course, really do PM me your email address after that! Smile

Thanks so much for your time guys - really appreciate it!

~ Nique
Bill Cushman
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PM'd you
Rod Irroc
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I will PM you.
tctahoe
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Pm'd you
nique
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Thanks guys for agreeing to help me out! All review copies have been sent out here; will anxiously await your thoughts on the routine!

~ Nique
ElliottB
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Studying this is definitely on my agenda. Things got very busy for me all of the sudden. At this time I can say that the 30 pages of instructions are very professionally produced and well written, with tons of detail and crisp photographs covering every step of the process. Hopefully, I will get to it soon.
maarten.bosmans
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I got a free review copy of this book. I promise Nique I will pay full price for this because I like it so much.
What you have here is a superclean mental epic rountine only using 3 index cards and a grease led pencil.

Nique gives you also scripting for his routine he uses in his stage show its a really clever take on the mental epic routine.
His theory on mental epic is also very interesting but the true gem is the handling of the index cards.
Here you write every prediction in full view of the persons name before they spoke out their choice.

The only bad thing, not persé bad is the card force at the end. He does not explain how to force a card but points
you in the right direction.

In my kidsshow I use the mental epic board but I am so tired of using the chalk, it messes up my fingers and suit.
So now I can write with a pencil an I can give out the predictions on this card with my contact info on them.

If you want to know what I use in my kids show it is basiccally the same routine but not a casino theme but a zoo theme
and as my final prediction is use Art Vanderlay's Pengiun Force.

These are my 2cents.
Jerskin
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I'm interested in this if only because I do something similar also called mental epique which I've done in lectures at conventions and the Magic Castle.
GrEg oTtO

MUNDUS VULT DECIPI
Uli Weigel
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Mental Epic using only three business cards or index cards and a pen is nothing new. I have here before me an old Linking Ring Issue from 1985 with just such a routine, and it wasn't even new back then. I have another routine in my library using a slightly different handling. So, the question is, what justifies a new publication about that old chestnut?

Quote:
On Aug 29, 2015, maarten.bosmans wrote:
His theory on mental epic is also very interesting but the true gem is the handling of the index cards.
Here you write every prediction in full view of the persons name before they spoke out their choice.


This is also the case with the impromptu Mental Epic routines in my library.
Bill Cushman
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As I wrote Nique, while impressed with his efforts to provide his own spin on Mental Epic, I feel there are some serious things lacking with Epique. As it stands, it might be acceptable as one offering in a collection among many but I don't think there is enough original material or improvements on other work in this area to justify a stand alone release as I believe is his intent.

I sent Nique a detailed response and he asked me to summarize my thoughts for the thread. Maarten touches on what I consider a major issue; resorting to essentially "use your favorite force" for the third selection. In the context of this routine, since a psych or equivoque force is used, I find it even more problematic. First, no psych, or even equivoque force is 100% and that isn't addressed. Second, if Nique were offering his own creation of a psych/equivoqe force the inclusion of original material might mitigate my concerns but I don't think it is enough to offer a few sources at the end of the document.

Nique is also trying to address the issue of starting with an unlimited choice and ending with one that is limited as is often the case in ME routines. However, I don't agree with his solution that starting with a wide open choice and using an even more limited choice for the SECOND selection is a viable answer. My preference is to go in ascending order, sacrificing the unlimited choice altogether if need be. This is how I structured my own ME variations in Mind Index.

Using a unifying theme to structure all three choices is far from original. Again, see my and Millard Longman's routines in Mind Index. Even Nique's choice of a casino theme has been done before and more than once. Off the top of my head, Becker's Casino Royale (though not a classic ME) falls in this category. So nothing particularly new here.

Finally, methods requiring just index cards and a pen already exist. Richard Osterlind's Artificial Intelligence in his book Mystique offers a much better solution in my opinion. In just a few pages (Epique takes 30 pages to desccribe) Richard teaches a method that he's honed in performance for decades that accomplishes most of if not all of Nique's goals. Plus requires zero advance preparation. AI is one effect among many strong offerings in this book written by a master of our craft.

There are some things I like in Epique (e.g.,using a "pseudo-equivoque" to pave the path for the later use of a real equivoque and reframing the prediction as the use of influence) but I'm not entirely sure even these ideas haven't already been done. Nique does a fine job of describing his goals and the choices to achieve them but I don't see that as enough to recommend this particularly with methods like Artificial Intelligence already available.
tctahoe
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Thank you for sharing you work with me Nigue,
This would have been a nice addition to the Mental Epic Compendium by Paul Romany. Nique has some nice touches and ideas. I do prefer Mental Epic without the tradition prop.
I enjoy using psychological forces, but I don’t know if I would be comfortable using one as a final force in a routine, but that my just be me.

Nique uses a Casino Theme for his routine, which I like, however one of the reasons for putting this routine out was to move away from the need to use a physical card force. I find this a bit funny since this theme would be a great one to justify using a deck of cards. Again, that could just be me.
nique
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Hi guys!

Again, first up - thank you to Bill Cushman as well as TC for going through the material. I'm always appreciative of people taking a piece of their own time out for me. Smile

The main motivation for me in putting this out is the handling for the 3 index cards, which I do believe has some value. I've received emails asking me about putting up videos of the routine or what the handling looks like etc.

Basically, three 4x6 index cards are folded in half lengthwise. Three members of the audience are selected and their names are written on the front of the cards respectively. You open up the first spectator's card (the audience can see the name on the card) and make your impressions/prediction inside its folds, fold it back down and then openly place it to the back of the stack. You continue with the routine as per mental epic, and then repeat the handling with the next spectator. The "right" names are seen at all times when writing your impressions down.

For the last spectator, after you've written your impressions/prediction in his respective card, the three cards are then openly placed on your performance table, "tent" fashion with the relevant names showing, as you go through the final phase of the routine with the third spectator. At the end the three cards are flipped opened up in succession, made to stand on the table to display the reveals.

In the interests of full disclosure, and as Bill Cushman, TC and Maarten have pointed out, if you wish to perform the routine as outlined in Epique, you will need to know a verbal equivoque (not a psychological force) of a playing card as per Joshua Quinn and as discussed by Colin McLeod in Opening Minds. While these are 100% and propless, I do mention in the ebook that you can use any force you prefer, even the current one you are using in your current performance of mental epic, your current presentation etc, but instead substitute the handling for Epique.

Mental epic with just index cards isn't new; perhaps think of it as a different handling I'm offering. Smile

Please let me know if you've any questions!

~ Nique
Ken Dyne
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I really enjoyed this. I loved the handling and reading Niques thinking around Mental Epic.

Nique and I have been chatting about our individual approached to Mental Epic for a while, and it's nice that he's decided to share this with everyone.

Thanks Niue., great work!
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nique
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Thanks Ken!

Epique is now available through me direct, and will probably be up on Lybrary.com as well in a couple of days.
It is priced at USD$15.

Thanks again guys.

~ Nique
Rod Irroc
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Thanks for offering me a review copy. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this. I'll give you my thoughts on what I have read.

I'm all about presentations. This PDF is all about the method and the presentation is generic. Nothing wrong with that but my advice would be to make a clear understanding of what you are actually selling.

Methods really do not matter to me as long as they work and are practical. Your method and handling (for me) is too much work for doing a simple one-ahead. I feel you are adding more work than needed and it's all because of you wanting to generate a stronger visual of yourself writing on the correct paper. There would be no reason for me to do this as it's already covered with words and acting. I do understand YOUR justification because it's what you came up with to achieve YOUR goal.

What it all boils down to is you're teaching a method to accomplish something some performers may feel the need to put more emphasis on. And if they do feel that way then this will work for them.
nique
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Hi Rod!

Thanks for going through the handling. And yeah, I very much agree. This handling was about me seeking that "strong visual" that you've mentioned. Your last paragraph in your post really sums it all up nicely too!

Thanks again.

~ Nique
nique
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Hi all,

Have decided against putting this out. Thanks for your time anyways!

Moderators please feel free to delete this thread. Thanks! Smile

~ Nique
George Hunter
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Nique:

Thanks for stimulating a very useful discussion on this thread.

I do not know whether you should put it out or not. Hobbyist performers, even most of the most serious and affluent ones, do not acquire everything. Your book may contribute to guys who have accessed (say) two or three versions of ME but not the whole range. I'd be interested in what your beta reviewers would advise, given that practical criterion.

George
nique
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Hi George,

Thanks, I know where you're coming from. For now, I've decided to hold off its release, and see if I'm able to revise the ebook to something that would cater to most people's expectations from a release, before I put it out there. So, eventually it will be released, do keep a lookout for it!

~ Nique
Uli Weigel
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You could send your trick to one of the magic magazines. Is that too old school?
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