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Ray Chelt Special user Changing the world with my 988 Posts |
Well, with my slightly above average IQ, , I think I've got this one figured. I'd say there's no "switch" involved but there is a "ditch" of something but that would play out totally organically.
I think this is a pretty clever idea and I can see it being eminently practical. Nice one Sansminds and Nicholas. NB, if I'm right the artwork on the ad and the demo can't be quite legit from certain angles but it's a fairly accurate representation of what the spec would say they saw. |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2239 Posts |
The artwork and demo are an exact accurate representation of what the spectators see.
I had worked out the method as well, minus one detail that I'm guessing Ray Chelt missed as well, which is what originally made me think I was wrong or that the demo was edited. The idea is clever but they didn't seem to think everything through/didn't take the time to work everything out completely. What I received feels like a prototype. Not that it's fragile (it won't break) but it's frail when handling it. They could have devised a better way to keep the gimmick "together". Also, the material used for part of the gimmick isn't ideal and would have easily been made with a more suitable material. The main part of the gimmick isn't that well camouflaged since it's the card box design and not a bicycle back design so lighting can easily catch the secret. The sizing of the gimmick isn't quite right so when handling the box, you can't be as fair as you'd like because they might(probably will) see seams/edges. The gimmick comes all assembled but then there is one tiny detail of the gimmick that wasn't, could have had it made as well... There is no deck switch but you require a bit of misdirection before the penetration. After the penetration, you take out the cards and this is when the edges are really bad and the gimmick for me seems to not want to stay together at a certain place and the ditch is horrible, you don't end clean and they can't look through the whole deck. Not to mention it's not smooth to do either. If you don't ditch anything and just dump out the cards, they are examinable and you can perform any card trick you want and the reset becomes instant as you place the cards in the box but they can't check the box. If you ditch the gimmick to have the box examined, good luck in real life to reset in front of people. Oh yeah, they left out a pretty crucial bit from the advert; not a deal breaker but they could have mentioned it though if they told you, you'd know how this was done. Also the gimmick to allow the sharpie to penetrate is slightly bigger than a sharpie so you can't really do this right in front of someone because they'll probably see the hole around the sharpie... All in all, I wouldn't use this live but maybe on video. However, I'm not sure if television rights not included means Youtube as well? |
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Xcath1 Inner circle 3052 Posts |
Uh sounds sort of like a disaster
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TuneHV Inner circle New York 2062 Posts |
Sounds like a typical review of a Sansminds project that looks too good to be true.
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2239 Posts |
Looks FANTASTIC on video though, I'm uploading a video as we speak to show what it can look like. For me though, not practical for real world performing but not a waste of money.
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2239 Posts |
I added the desaturation and blue tint just because I like how it looks, it's not to hide anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6LlS2f_f-Q |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
Useful review, very insightful. Thank you. Can you do anything to make the gimmick better (strengthen, smooth?) or is it something that's too complex to fiddle with? Can you recreate the gimmick from scratch and make a better one? Also, why would it be important to reset in front of people? Seems like many tricks have to be reset in private.
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2239 Posts |
I've been playing with this some more and it's actually not that bad, I just don't like the material they used for a certain part of the gimmick, it's just absolutely stupid of them, sorry to say it. Might actually be usable in strolling situations. I'll have to try and perform it for people. I wouldn't hand out the box though, it's really redundant since all of the cards were in there and they're all examinable and having the box examined forces you to do the clean up which is horrible and then the reset is impossible. I have an idea to fix the material used.
There isn't much to make the gimmick stronger, it's how it needs to be to work how it needs to work. If you're careful, I supposed you probably wouldn't have any problems but it could happen during performance that the gimmick undoes and you'd expose the secret. You could make your own gimmick but like I said it'd have to be made the same way. It's important to me to be able to reset in public because if I'm working a strolling gig, I can't walk away after every table to reset nor reset between tables, people are watching and they're everywhere! |
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barts185 Inner circle Can you believe I've been wrong on 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, Slackerking wrote: Quote:
On Aug 14, 2015, Slackerking wrote: So fake/misleading trailers are okay, because SOMEONE (who hasn't waited for reviews and deserves what they get) will buy it based on that fake/misleading trailer and do a review of it. But you can't trust the reviews because only the positive ones get published either initially (when a lot of purchasing is done) or at all. Interesting. Still waiting (for numerous months now) for an answer to my question to you: If no one ordered anything until someone bought it and did a review of it, who would buy anything and on what would they base their decision to purchase it? |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
Has anyone else "shelled" out money for this? At first watching it I had a wtf moment then after viewing a few more times... Glad I'm not an impulsive buyer
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CarlMcCoy Elite user 465 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 29, 2015, barts185 wrote: I'd imagine that it's now painfully obvious he's not going to answer your question. So possibly best to stop asking. |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
Oh dear. Not another prototype release.
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ReviewerMaster Veteran user 307 Posts |
I am still waiting for mine to arrive. But I was in my local shop and the owner was kind enough to let me play with the gimmick. It's very well designed. When he first did it to me, I had no idea how it was done as there was no switch. The box was examinable too. Witnessing it first hand it looks incredible. Now I am even more excited to get mine in the mail.
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normative New user 53 Posts |
As someone who works as a policy analyst covering (among other things) copyright & intellectual property in my day job, I am puzzled by the claim that "TV rights" are not included with this trick. While a technically novel gimmick might be patentable, and the details of a specific recorded performance (the verbatim patter, elaborate dramatic choreography) could be copyrightable, magical effects in themselves are not subject to copyright under U.S. law, and patent does not restrict performance rights.
Which is to say: There just isn't any such thing as the "television rights" to an effect like this. The creators would have no more legal authority to restrict its use on television than, say, the manufacturers of a pair of jeans. Does anyone have any idea what they think they're talking about here? It sounds like a bogus attempt to extract licensing payments from television performers without any real legal basis. |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
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On Aug 29, 2015, barts185 wrote: Well, the review sites would still review them so yes even if no one bought them you could find reviews. Though I'm not sure how useful reviews are unless you have the same opinions as the reviewers. I've seen great products panned (something out of the ordinary) and crap products raved about (x-act). And yes, trailers are advertising. Yesterday while driving there was an ad on the radio for McDonald's summer drinks that said they would change summer drinks forever. Only an idiot would really believe their new drinks would change drinks forever. Last night on TV, Dodge had an ad about their new line of trucks and essentially spouted the same thing. Changing the auto industry completely. This happens in EVERY business in the on a daily basis and people don't flip out about. Only here where apparently people can't distinguish between hyperbole and actuality do people go nuts. I guess if someone can't stand it anywhere I understand, but I learned decades ago how to distinguish between reality and fantasy. |
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
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On Aug 29, 2015, normative wrote: In most businesses many unenforceable things are written into contracts. It keeps the majority of people from pursuing whatever is in the writing. In banking, contracts are full of these types of things. Sometimes if someone wanted to fight it in court they might win, however it discourages 99% of people from ever taking it that far. They might lose in a court case, they might not depending on the circumstance but it will stop the majority. It's highly doubtful they just put it their without researching. As businesses we all have lawyers who look things over and determine whether it's okay or useful or enforceable to keep in. |
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normative New user 53 Posts |
[quote]On Aug 29, 2015, Slackerking wrote:
Quote:
It's highly doubtful they just put it their without researching. As businesses we all have lawyers who look things over and determine whether it's okay or useful or enforceable to keep in. Yes, but I'm the sort of person you'd call if you were researching this, and (assuming we're talking about the raw trick and not the accompanying patter & routine) I'm pretty certain it's not enforceable. You may be right that most people will simply assume it IS legally enforceable, and either refrain from televised performance or attempt to license television rights. But that's a sort of fraud, isn't it? The creators have no exclusive performance rights; they're selling something that doesn't exist. It's the equivalent of standing outside a public park and trying to convince gullible tourists to fork over an "entry fee": Conning people who don't know any better into forking over a payment for what they're legally entitled to do for free. |
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Paul S Wingham Inner circle 1378 Posts |
As far as I'm concerned; you sell a trick to me; I get the rights to perform it when and where I want. I don't think excluding tv rights would be in anyway enforceable in the uk. Mainly because being able to perform a trick that you buy is implicit and the part relating to that being restricted is never positively accepted.
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gtx magic Special user United Kingdom England 954 Posts |
[quote]On Aug 29, 2015, normative wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 29, 2015, Slackerking wrote: Yes I agree. When a person purchases a product (ie) from sansminds,you are not entering into a signed contract. And even if the add says you cannot perform on tv with out sansmind permission and a fee will be attainable. Because if I purchased the trick and I gave it to a friend and never mentioned the clause in the add, and he performed on tv with it then there is nothing sansmind could do about it. Therefore there is no legal legitimacy in a court of law. Like you say they are frauding and hoping people will be to scared if they don't pay. But what magic effect's have sansmind got that are actually good enough for a tv perfomances.!!! Graham.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
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normative New user 53 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 29, 2015, Paul S Wingham wrote: Legally speaking, it wouldn't even really matter whether you've bought it. Unless the trick involves a patented gimmick, you could (legally, if not ethically) just learn the secret and copy it. It's not that you've implicitly purchased the performance right when you bought the trick: The performance right doesn't exist. With actual copyrightable works, purchase of a copy doesn't normally include public performance rights: You can't publicly screen a movie just because you bought the DVD, or stage a play just because you bought a printed copy of the script. But magic effects as such aren't copyrightable works, so there's no public (or televised) performance right to acquire, implicitly or otherwise. I suppose they could try to condition the purchase on an agreement not to perform on TV without further permission, but text in ad copy is not a contract, and no such contract would bind anyone who subsequently obtained the trick. |
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