We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The problem with seances and the paranormal (12 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
No- a real mentalist (and there are very few remaining today) is NOT a magician. And your saying the contrary doesn't make it so either.
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6123 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
Uri used to be a real mentalist who is now mostly thought of as a magician who told lies. Who is right the media and public of today or the media and public of the past? - even Uri seems to have given up trying to be a real mentalist these days.
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6123 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
I remember Uri on tv shows in the company of magicians protesting that he was NOT a magician. Where in reality he was a magician living a lie.
innercirclewannabe
View Profile
Inner circle
Ireland
1564 Posts

Profile of innercirclewannabe
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
Uri used to be a real mentalist who is now mostly thought of as a magician who told lies. Who is right the media and public of today or the media and public of the past? - even Uri seems to have given up trying to be a real mentalist these days.


You clearly are NOT following his career to date. The man is never 'off'.

I'm intrigued what you know to the contrary. Can you elaborate?
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
mastermindreader
View Profile
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
12590 Posts

Profile of mastermindreader
Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't bolster the argument. It just shows that you don't understand that there is a completely different, and very well documented, point of view that mentalism and magic are not the same. They don't even share common historical roots.
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17367 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't bolster the argument. It just shows that you don't understand that there is a completely different, and very well documented, point of view that mentalism and magic are not the same. They don't even share common historical roots.


Hey Bob ... How about Houdini's buddy placing a retractable ruler in the Margery Box. He admitted it right?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18014 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Not on my thread please gents...

...and Slim. 😈😉

Back to ny original post please...
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10571 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Nah - if Houdini can handle the Cthulhu Mythos, a measly ghost shouldn't have been so troublesome

Image
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18014 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
No- a real mentalist (and there are very few remaining today) is NOT a magician. And your saying the contrary doesn't make it so either.


I understand what you're saying--and agree that it's a different mindset, though beyond a point the argument comes dangerously close to "no true Scotsman."
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10571 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0-Us_jumQ


we can all tap our feet to that
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10571 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
No- a real mentalist (and there are very few remaining today) is NOT a magician. And your saying the contrary doesn't make it so either.


I understand what you're saying--and agree that it's a different mindset, though beyond a point the argument comes dangerously close to "no true Scotsman."



"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18014 Posts

Profile of IAIN
...why do you think there's more alleged sightings of victorian looking ghosts than any other time period?

what took place in the victorian era that allowed people to transfer into ghosts so much more easily than any other time period before or since?

anything to do with stories, films and plays set in that time period?
the victorian era is the most easily identifiable historically?
a huge amount of famous horror writers are from that time period?
something else?

we certainly viewed and treated death a little differently in the victorian era...but how does that affect ghosts?

does all of the above somehow influence? why and why not?

i bet you could psych&^&****lly f&*ce a ghost if you worked out some decent framing and questions...that could be fun during a seance...
Randwill
View Profile
Inner circle
1915 Posts

Profile of Randwill
Does anybody ever see neanderthal ghosts?
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18014 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Does anybody ever see neanderthal ghosts?


i think some of them post here...
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Does anybody ever see neanderthal ghosts?


i think some of them post here...


Ba dum tss!
I shall see you on the other side.
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10571 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Does anybody ever see neanderthal ghosts?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stone_Tape

Great little haunted / science vs spirit POV Xmas ghost tale by Kneale.... and there are layers into the "tape" that go ways back - starts with a Victorian Ghost but it gets more wild when the more primitive forces are unleashed
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
actorcoop
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of actorcoop
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, IAIN wrote:
They are a set of questions that I consider worthy of consideration, why? Because by questioning these things, you get to see a much, much bigger picture...we get to see what is indirectly implied by what someone claims...


I think it is more important to raise these questions TO an audience than to define them ourselves and push our own beliefs upon them. Much like a good history teacher would teach a world religion class in an unbiased manner regardless of his own faith. I ultimately think that people will believe whatever that want to. I think it is important to at least let them knows that there ARE different angles and its up to THEM to decide. Whether séances are presented as 'real' or not doesn't take away from the fact that it is very unique theatre and should be treated as such and not a debate.

That being said, I also agree with MANY points you brought up IAIN. The thing that puzzles myself as well is the fact that there seemss to be a lack of diversity in the afterlife. If our souls really did cross over and needed to communicate surely there will be more ancestors trying to come through speaking Russian? German? Chinese?

As far as the Victorian aspect of it all, I find that fascinating. Death was so 'en vogue' during that era and I think that there is a dark romanticism attached to it that makes it a perfect anchor for certain seance work. Also, the spiritualism movement was picking up a lot of speed during this time so the attachment to each other is probably rooted from that. It is so interesting to me because it is a religious ritual that actually requires an audience. Perhaps it's ritualistic integrity has been maintained this long for sake of keeping a tradition alive.

Of course, my perspective and stance of Seance is coming from a more theatrical slant. I think as long as it is established that what you are doing is performing or presenting something, whatever you justify (or don't) is part of the act.
*I knew you were going to read this
Al Desmond
View Profile
Inner circle
Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co
1453 Posts

Profile of Al Desmond
Quote:
On Aug 27, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
If you actually study the better cases, both historical and present day, there is a strong indication that survival is quite possible. Stephen Braude does an excellent survey in his book 'Immortal Remains'.

As one who has personally had the experience of ostensibly communicating with apparently deceased persons, I can tell you the experience is quite real. I can completely understand why practitioners passionately believe it is real. And I would argue that critics are in no position to really understand those feelings. While I am not a sure of the real mechanism - no one is - I suspect it is a combination of psi among the living and survival psi of some form.

Since anything is possible, it would seem a wise approach to potential survival encounter would be an open, objective inquiry with no pre-established ideas. I was personally confronted with precisely this scenario in the 1970's during a sitting with a Spiritualist medium who purportedly brought through Jesus. While I suspected this might not be the case, I must confess that one's certainty of belief can be challenged in this scenario. And, as is always the case, the prudent course is simply to accept the event as real in the moment and think about it critically after it has all played out. It seems pointless to deny the experience at the time.


Your assumption "since anything is possible," is simply that. An assumption.

You cannot use that as proof of the rest of your argument.

A wise approach would be to question your assumption that anything is possible.

That's false on it's face.

But then again, if no one thought like you, I guess no one would be impressed or entertained by what I do.
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17367 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2015, IAIN wrote:
...why do you think there's more alleged sightings of victorian looking ghosts than any other time period?

what took place in the victorian era that allowed people to transfer into ghosts so much more easily than any other time period before or since?

anything to do with stories, films and plays set in that time period?
the victorian era is the most easily identifiable historically?
a huge amount of famous horror writers are from that time period?
something else?

we certainly viewed and treated death a little differently in the victorian era...but how does that affect ghosts?

does all of the above somehow influence? why and why not?

i bet you could psych&^&****lly f&*ce a ghost if you worked out some decent framing and questions...that could be fun during a seance...

You have a slight logic problem. Native Americans DID NOT see Victorian Ghosts ... They saw Native American Spirits and still do.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The problem with seances and the paranormal (12 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL