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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Osterlind's 13 Steps: Step 12: Hypnotism & Suggestion (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Bill Cushman
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Has anyone seen this installment? If so, please provide a review and an idea of what specifically Richard teaches. Thanks in advance!
Gumar Oz DuBar
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I, too, have an interest in this and have been waiting for a review and a syllabus.
I write and edit text.
JesHansen
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I think I will download it in the evening and than write a review here for you!

I use hypnosis I a close up setting as an extra to my mentalism quite often but I haven't put any hypnosis in my Stage Act so maybe some insights from Mr. Osterlind!
jstreiff
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This step is, like all of Osterlind's work, filled with useful pragmatic advice from a worker. The scope is introductory, so truly experienced hypnotists will probably find less than those who are either just getting started or less experienced. As usual a sample performance is followed by a simple definition of hypnotism and an explanation of the approach which Osterlind adapts principally from Ormond McGill. Clearly a 50 minute video cannot delve into the depth of the work, but it does serve the highly useful purpose of introducing the stage hypnosis act to those potentially interested in this form of the art.
John
WooverM
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
This step is, like all of Osterlind's work, filled with useful pragmatic advice from a worker. The scope is introductory, so truly experienced hypnotists will probably find less than those who are either just getting started or less experienced. As usual a sample performance is followed by a simple definition of hypnotism and an explanation of the approach which Osterlind adapts principally from Ormond McGill. Clearly a 50 minute video cannot delve into the depth of the work, but it does serve the highly useful purpose of introducing the stage hypnosis act to those potentially interested in this form of the art.

I hesitated before posting my thoughts about this step because I consider myself a novice in hypnotism, but I felt like this step was not worth it's money, to take such a big subject and to try to explain even an introduction to it in 33 minutes is simply impossible.

Richard is clearly a professional, but I felt it was a bad introduction to the subject, I saw Addison(I know her name because he tried to show her forgetting her name and failed, as well as trying to force a leg jumping with someone else which also failed) taking this whole demonstration as a joke matter(and Richard did not notice she wasn't as suggestible), and it didn't feel like a good performance either. Richard clearly knows his material but the explanation section was disorganized and lacking for me, he didn't go through any subject deep enough or clearly enough and I felt key points were mentioned but only briefly and in a manner that anyone without a background on the subject would ignore, it felt more like a conversation with Richard where he just answers the question "how did you do that?", and not a well rehearsed and planned lecture.

I think anyone new to hypnosis would probably think that you can just go out and be a hypnotist with only learning how to do the Hand Clasping test, and the "Discuss" section at Penguin shows that as well.(people asking "wait where was the explanation?", "Does anyone else know much about inductions? He doesn't really go over any in the video...")
Woover
Mindpro
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Yes, many of of here are highly skilled in actual hypnosis (not fake pseudo magician's hypnosis). I think your perception of what Richard's inclusion of hypnosis is on this set may be not as intended. It was not meant to be as you described. It was not meant to be a hypnosis teach-in or instruction.

Also a hand clasping is not hypnosis, so no there is no way you could "go out and be a hypnotist" with just a simple suggestibility test. As you stated, you are a novice. Keep learning as education and proper training is the only way to learn and become proficient in hypnosis.
IAIN
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So, does he teach actual hypnosis in this?
I've asked to be banned
WooverM
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2015, Mindpro wrote:
Yes, many of of here are highly skilled in actual hypnosis (not fake pseudo magician's hypnosis). I think your perception of what Richard's inclusion of hypnosis is on this set may be not as intended. It was not meant to be as you described. It was not meant to be a hypnosis teach-in or instruction.

Also a hand clasping is not hypnosis, so no there is no way you could "go out and be a hypnotist" with just a simple suggestibility test. As you stated, you are a novice. Keep learning as education and proper training is the only way to learn and become proficient in hypnosis.

Hey Mindpro,

Maybe I am an idiot, maybe I really know nothing at all, but all the points I made were true and you know it, I didn't write "it sucks I can't hypnotize after that", I detailed what I thought was lacking for me in this "Step".

Did Richard share pragmatic advice? Yes. But I thought this whole step was not a step at all, but a conversation off stage with someone who is telling you "get this book and learn it from there". Now obviously this is way too big of a topic to cover in 33 minutes of instructions, but that does not mean that it was needed to be such a short step, if Richard really felt that hypnotism should have been included in his 13 steps he should not have made it such a short step, he could have even split it into 2 parts, but the 33 minutes of explanations I got were disorganized, lacking and didn't stress any point hard enough except the hand clasping test script.

Afterall we all respect Richard for his contributions to the art, but this step was not worth my money, I AM the target audience for this kind of step, not experienced hypnotists, and I feel like the value I got out of it was not worth the discounted 14.9$, if I could get my money back, I would.
Woover
jstreiff
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The key point is that one cannot teach hypnosis in depth in under an hour. That is an unreasonable expectation. What Osterlind does is present and discuss a simple performance that serves to illustrate that hypnosis is not a magic trick in that it has unpredictable outcomes. And, as he points out, that is part of the charm and challenge of such a performance.

If you want depth do as he suggests and buy a full book on the subject which he does recommend in the video. And that will, of course, be far more expensive in terms both of time and money as well it should be. It also might cause some to reconsider whether or not they are really prepared to make such investments and therefore whether or not hypnosis is really right for them.
John
Mindpro
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Exactly. There seems to be some magician's thinking going on here - Buy a DVD, book or effect, read/view it and then do it. I'll repeat it - Hypnosis is not an effect or trick. it is it's own complete art and science. A single book or DVD can only scratch the surface of hypnosis at best. There are many elements involved, typically far more than magic or learning a trick.

33 minutes is barely enough time to describe what hypnosis is an how it works let alone any teaching or guidence.

When hypnosis is presented in most magic texts (or videos) it's usually to introduce the discipline, and nothing more. Some times it's offered as a facade or front for faux hypnosis or pseudo hypnosis for magicians ("I'm going to put you in a trance...") type nonsense.

So first and foremost in your education is to understand what it is and what it's not. The absolute best advice I give my students or anyone interested in approaching hypnosis is do it from a complete blank point and perspective, NOT a magician's perspective as it'll only create more obstacles for you, which is the reason most give up before ever getting off the ground.

Real performance hypnosis (stage on street) should be learned independently from the ground up with the right and proper foundation.

Btw, WooverM, I never called you an idiot...you called yourself one but not me for the record.
Stunninger
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Richard says in the trailer, at 1:05, 'Imagine being able to hypnotize someone on the spot and give them the suggestion where they can't pull their hands apart or speak their own names. I'm going to teach you how to do that in this step.'

It's stated quite clearly the buyer will be taught how to hypnotize someone in this lesson. The ad doesn't say anything about 'fake magician hypnosis' or imply the buyer will be taught some type of pseudo hypnosis. No mention of that at all.

So why would a potential buyer be left with any impression other than they are going to learn how to hypnotize others?

I practiced and taught hypnosis for many years. One persistent fact remains: there is no clear, agreed upon definition of hypnosis. There is also no universally agreed upon set of criteria for determining if a person is hypnotized or not. The debate between 'state' and 'non-state' theories has never been resolved. Read any college Psych 100 text book and you will find this to be well documented.

What is hypnosis? How do you know if a person is actually hypnotized? Theories and opinions are plentiful. Many contradict one another. There are those adamant there is no such thing as hypnosis, and that any response which may be elicited with a formal hypnotic induction can also be elicited without any induction at all. There is some evidence to support this. Read 'They Call it Hypnosis' by Robert Baker, a researcher and university professor. One passage from the book:

"Strictly speaking, every time the word 'hypnosis' is used it could be placed in quotation marks. This is because there is no such thing as hypnosis. The point and purpose of this book is to convince the reader that the phenomenon called 'hypnosis' does not exist, has never existed in the past, and will not exist in the future. What is commonly called and referred to today as 'hypnosis' is a fallacy, that is, a false and mistaken idea handed down from generation to generation..."

Kreskin has said this for years.

Martin Taylor has performed a complete show of 'Hypnotism without Hypnosis' for many years. He elicits all of the same responses from his volunteers as stage hypnotists do, but without the use of any hypnotic induction.

I know, I know, this thread is not about the debate of does hypnosis exist or not, it's about Richard Osterlind's Penguin download. The points above are made for a reason. There are those who firmly, deeply believe that to learn hypnosis requires much more than a 33 minute download from Penguin Magic, that a full course of instruction is needed, lasting many weeks or months. Well, they can, and are going to, believe what they want, of course.

However, there are many others who disagree, and believe there's really not that much to learning how to hypnotize, and are quite comfortable teaching the entire process in 30 minutes. I could easily teach one definition of hypnosis, how to do suggestibility testing, and a hypnotic induction in under 15 minutes, and then demonstrate the elicitation of 'hypnotic phenomena' for another 15. Easy.

I'm not interested in trying to change anyone's mind. Believe what you want.

I'm not interested in debating anyone. This will be my only post in this thread.

The field of hypnosis is quite controversial. There are almost as many different definitions of hypnosis as their are hypnotists. There are many different ways to explore and begin learning. Robert Baker's book would be one really good place to start.
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WooverM
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Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
The key point is that one cannot teach hypnosis in depth in under an hour. That is an unreasonable expectation. What Osterlind does is present and discuss a simple performance that serves to illustrate that hypnosis is not a magic trick in that it has unpredictable outcomes. And, as he points out, that is part of the charm and challenge of such a performance.

If you want depth do as he suggests and buy a full book on the subject which he does recommend in the video. And that will, of course, be far more expensive in terms both of time and money as well it should be. It also might cause some to reconsider whether or not they are really prepared to make such investments and therefore whether or not hypnosis is really right for them.

Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, Mindpro wrote:
Exactly. There seems to be some magician's thinking going on here - Buy a DVD, book or effect, read/view it and then do it. I'll repeat it - Hypnosis is not an effect or trick. it is it's own complete art and science. A single book or DVD can only scratch the surface of hypnosis at best. There are many elements involved, typically far more than magic or learning a trick.

33 minutes is barely enough time to describe what hypnosis is an how it works let alone any teaching or guidence.

When hypnosis is presented in most magic texts (or videos) it's usually to introduce the discipline, and nothing more. Some times it's offered as a facade or front for faux hypnosis or pseudo hypnosis for magicians ("I'm going to put you in a trance...") type nonsense.

So first and foremost in your education is to understand what it is and what it's not. The absolute best advice I give my students or anyone interested in approaching hypnosis is do it from a complete blank point and perspective, NOT a magician's perspective as it'll only create more obstacles for you, which is the reason most give up before ever getting off the ground.

Real performance hypnosis (stage on street) should be learned independently from the ground up with the right and proper foundation.

Btw, WooverM, I never called you an idiot...you called yourself one but not me for the record.

Hey Mindpro and Jstreiff,

I agreed with you right from the start, hypnosis should be learned from the ground up and I know it will take time to master, and more than a 33 minutes download. You are both answering a different question than wheter this product was worth it's monetary value, you are answering how to really learn hypnosis which is not the point of this thread nor was asked by me at any time.

About it being only 33 minutes of explanation, that was my initial point critisizing Richard's product, it didn't give enough ground to work up from, it was disorganized and lacking, and he made a "by the way" remarks of some important and key points(he actually used the words "by the way" while mentioning one of those points), I felt like I learned nothing but the hand clasping test and anyone who begins in hypnotism is likely to miss far more. This step is like spreading misinformation while having quality information to give out, sure, it can not achieve much in 33 minutes, but that doesn't mean it should have been only 33 minutes of explanation, Richard chose it to be that way and I think he has done both himself and his customers a disservice, both on the quality and the duration of the download. And that was the gist of my review.

Btw Mindpro, I brought up the "idiot" remark up not to critize you by any way, I know you haven't implied that(you implied I didn't know any better about what I was expecting from the download, which is false), but even if I were one, my points would still stand.
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, Enotskcalb wrote:
Richard says in the trailer, at 1:05, 'Imagine being able to hypnotize someone on the spot and give them the suggestion where they can't pull their hands apart or speak their own names. I'm going to teach you how to do that in this step.'

It's stated quite clearly the buyer will be taught how to hypnotize someone in this lesson. The ad doesn't say anything about 'fake magician hypnosis' or imply the buyer will be taught some type of pseudo hypnosis. No mention of that at all.

So why would a potential buyer be left with any impression other than they are going to learn how to hypnotize others?

Thank you for bringing that up, that was why I was disaapointed from Richard, it's clearly false advertising giving the scope of the download.

Maybe you would be able to teach everything neccessary to do it in 15 minutes(although I doubt it) but Richard certainly has't in his 33 minutes which he sells as a way to learn just that.
Woover
jstreiff
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Important to note that value is always perceived and not objective, rather like the definition of hypnosis.
John
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Aside from explanation of hypnosis, are there some nice routines?
WooverM
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On Sep 28, 2015, Sicorace wrote:
Aside from explanation of hypnosis, are there some nice routines?

Richard explains the Hand Clasping suggestibility test in depth, and gives some practical advice, but, as I said before, I don't believe it's worth the $ spent nor worth watching as an introduction, both for the entertainment and the scope and quality of the teachings, I think you should go to the appropriate sub-forum and look for resources in there or just go with what Richard suggests if you want a thorough book on the subject, which is "The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism" by Ormond McGill.
Woover
here2009
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In my opinion, this was an awesome release. Everything by Osterling is very, very good and this is no exception.
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