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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
The ACA only affects a small portion of the population.


Since nearly 90% of Americans now have health coverage (a sharp improvement from two years ago), it's more accurate to say that the ACA affects almost the entire population.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/news/eco......-gallup/


Quote:
There are other pragmatic ways to accomplish the goal of keeping people from dying.


Such as...?

Ron



Per your link, 82% of Americans had healthcare coverage then, and 88.1% do now, so that's a whopping 6.1% that were affected. Not quite "almost all."

Or are you also counting those who had healthcare coverage and still do, but no longer have the plan or the doctor that they used to have and wanted to keep?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
R.S.
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My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance (the almost 90% of Americans), because under the ACA all those folks can no longer be denied for pre-existing conditions, have their coverage rescinded, insurance companies must comply with the 80% rule (which enabled me to get a refund check a couple years ago), etc.

So it is not correct to say that "the ACA only affects a small portion of the population." Smile

And for those who aren't as diligent as Lobo about reading links, here's the gist of it...

Quote:

Nearly 90 percent of Americans have health coverage

Nearly nine out of 10 Americans now have health insurance, a sharp improvement from two years ago before Obamacare was put in place.

A poll by Gallup found that the uninsured rate among U.S adults declined to 11.9% in the first quarter, down one percentage point from the end of last year and an improvement from the 18% without insurance in the fall of 2013, when the Americans were first were able to sign up for coverage at state and federal exchanges.

This is the lowest percentage of Americans without coverage since Gallup started tracking the figure in 2008. Those without coverage was just under 15% at that time, then remained in the range of 15% to 18% before it started declining sharply two years ago. The law requiring most Americans to have coverage or pay a penalty took effect at the start of 2014.

"An improving economy and a falling unemployment rate may also have accelerated the steep drop in the percentage of uninsured over the past year," said the Gallup report. "However, the uninsured rate is significantly lower than it was in early 2008, before the depths of the economic recession, suggesting that the recent decline is due to more than just an improving economy."



Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
RNK
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Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.
The Hermit
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Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
The ACA only affects a small portion of the population.


Since nearly 90% of Americans now have health coverage (a sharp improvement from two years ago), it's more accurate to say that the ACA affects almost the entire population.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/news/eco......-gallup/


Quote:
There are other pragmatic ways to accomplish the goal of keeping people from dying.


Such as...?

Ron


Form a fund at the state level for uninsurable people (existing conditions, etc.). It's been done for uninsurable drivers, other. Let insurance companies compete across state lines and reduce their costs which they can pass along. ACA has 6m members. At 10K a year per, it would cost 60B. Less than we all will pay for ACA.

I would suspect the real number of people needing this is 3-4M
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance (the almost 90% of Americans), because under the ACA all those folks can no longer be denied for pre-existing conditions, have their coverage rescinded, insurance companies must comply with the 80% rule (which enabled me to get a refund check a couple years ago), etc.

So it is not correct to say that "the ACA only affects a small portion of the population." Smile

And for those who aren't as diligent as Lobo about reading links, here's the gist of it...

Quote:

Nearly 90 percent of Americans have health coverage

Nearly nine out of 10 Americans now have health insurance, a sharp improvement from two years ago before Obamacare was put in place.

A poll by Gallup found that the uninsured rate among U.S adults declined to 11.9% in the first quarter, down one percentage point from the end of last year and an improvement from the 18% without insurance in the fall of 2013, when the Americans were first were able to sign up for coverage at state and federal exchanges.

This is the lowest percentage of Americans without coverage since Gallup started tracking the figure in 2008. Those without coverage was just under 15% at that time, then remained in the range of 15% to 18% before it started declining sharply two years ago. The law requiring most Americans to have coverage or pay a penalty took effect at the start of 2014.

"An improving economy and a falling unemployment rate may also have accelerated the steep drop in the percentage of uninsured over the past year," said the Gallup report. "However, the uninsured rate is significantly lower than it was in early 2008, before the depths of the economic recession, suggesting that the recent decline is due to more than just an improving economy."



Ron


Maybe so, but at a cost to all of us that is much higher than warrented. A lot of this is going to Medicaid. We all pay for that. This whole thing was profit for insurance and a screwing for the taxpayers.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance ...


Yeah, we know. That's kinda the problem.
R.S.
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On Sep 23, 2015, RNK wrote:
Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.


Wow, talk about a broad-brush and disingenuous statement! Really? "Skyrocketing"? For EVERYBODY? Actually, some parts of the law actually help to reduce premium costs.
Quote:
http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-health-insurance-premiums/

Before we discuss how the Affordable Care Act’s provisions both increase and decrease premiums, it’s important to understand that health insurance premium rates have been rising at alarming rates over the past decade due to the rising cost of health care in the U.S. In fact premium rates are rising faster than income which is part of the cause of Americans lacking access to Affordable Health Insurance.


So raising premiums is nothing new for insurance companies. But if you want to talk about skyrocketing premiums and deductibles, my rates went up and up for years before the ACA was ever implemented, and in 2009, three years before the ACA, my rates went up 100% for no reason at all! When the ACA came along, my rates went up at about the same or less rate than in the years prior to the ACA (which with the exception of that one year with the 100% increase, was in the 15-25% range). And as I said, a couple years ago I also received an automatic refund from the insurance company for non-compliance with the ACA's 80% rule. Smile

Also, notice in the chart that the average family premium as a percentage of median family income in 2011 (before the ACA) was 19%. In 2015 it's 21%. That's certainly not consistent with the claim of "sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody".

Quote:
The primary cause of the insurance premium rate hikes under ObamaCare is the requirement for insurers to cover high-risk consumers. Insurance companies can no longer deny Americans with pre-existing conditions and can’t charge higher rates based on health status or gender. These factors, along with a few other required benefits, rights and protections (like the elimination of lifetime and annual dollar limits) led to rate increases between 2010 and 2014.

By 2015 a lot of the premium growth has slowed, and health care spending is curbed for the first time in the decade in many instances. On top of that, many Americans can now Get Reduced Premium Rates and lower out-of-pocket costs by enrolling in a plan on their State’s health insurance marketplace.

The need for healthcare reform is obvious, the real question is, “does the ObamaCare (The Affordable Care Act) do enough to make insurance more affordable through it’s mandates, marketplace, and it’s new provisions, like the medical loss ratio and rate review provision, to protect consumers against insurance premium rate hikes moving forward.”

FACT: Some regions saw bigger premium hikes than others under the ACA. Also lower-income adults (under the 400% Federal Poverty Level) are the most likely to see a reduction in what they pay. Those with high-end plans, who had been in exclusive groups due to being healthy, saw the biggest premium increase. Post 2015 fluctuations, common as the law was transitioning to it’s new protections, are projected to curb and remain curbed over time.

ObamaCare Premiums in 2015

Reports are showing that premiums seeing average increase in premium growth of only 4% in 2015. In some major cities rates are even going down before subsidies. The cost of insurance premiums varies wildly by region, so not everyone is expected to see rates go down or stay about the same.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
The ACA only affects a small portion of the population.


Since nearly 90% of Americans now have health coverage (a sharp improvement from two years ago), it's more accurate to say that the ACA affects almost the entire population.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/news/eco......-gallup/


Quote:
There are other pragmatic ways to accomplish the goal of keeping people from dying.


Such as...?

Ron


Form a fund at the state level for uninsurable people (existing conditions, etc.). It's been done for uninsurable drivers, other. Let insurance companies compete across state lines and reduce their costs which they can pass along. ACA has 6m members. At 10K a year per, it would cost 60B. Less than we all will pay for ACA.

I would suspect the real number of people needing this is 3-4M


Who contributes to the fund? Anyway, not sure how that's much different than creating a marketplace for Americans to buy regulated PRIVATE Insurance, which the ACA already does.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Maybe so, but at a cost to all of us that is much higher than warrented. A lot of this is going to Medicaid. We all pay for that. This whole thing was profit for insurance and a screwing for the taxpayers.


You mean the same insurance companies that weren't held accountable before, but now have to use 80% of their profits for actual health care services or else pay a penalty?? The ACA is a scheme for them to profit? And how does all this screw the many taxpayers who couldn't get insurance before, but now can?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance ...


Yeah, we know. That's kinda the problem.



How is not being denied for health coverage, not having your plan rescinded, insurance companies being held accountable via the 80% rule, establishing minimum standards for health insurance policies, extension of dependent coverage, etc. a problem?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance ...


Yeah, we know. That's kinda the problem.



How is not being denied for health coverage, not having your plan rescinded, insurance companies being held accountable via the 80% rule, establishing minimum standards for health insurance policies, extension of dependent coverage, etc. a problem?

Ron


Nicely framed! Let me try: How is losing the plan and/or doctor that you liked, paying higher premiums, etc. a benefit?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
My point was that the ACA affects EVERYONE with health insurance ...


Yeah, we know. That's kinda the problem.



How is not being denied for health coverage, not having your plan rescinded, insurance companies being held accountable via the 80% rule, establishing minimum standards for health insurance policies, extension of dependent coverage, etc. a problem?

Ron


Nicely framed! Let me try: How is losing the plan and/or doctor that you liked, paying higher premiums, etc. a benefit?



Nobody I know lost their plan. Now, I'm aware that some did. And I bet a lot of those ended up getting better plans with more coverage when all was said and done.

In the long run, and this is just my opinion, I think we'll all be better off. Of course, time will tell. But I'm glad there are much less uninsured in the country now than there were a few years ago. With consumer protections to boot! Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
balducci
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Nicely framed! Let me try: How is losing the plan and/or doctor that you liked, paying higher premiums, etc. a benefit?


Nobody I know lost their plan. Now, I'm aware that some did. And I bet a lot of those ended up getting better plans with more coverage when all was said and done.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/13/fewer-peo......are.html

"In the individual insurance plan market [for 2015], just 400,000 people, or 2.2 percent of the overall market, had plans canceled after they received a letter citing lack of Obamacare compliance for the action."

FWIW, before Obamacare was even a gleam in any politicians eye, something like 20% of health insurance customers cancelled or had their policies cancelled in any given year. I think a little over a third of those were due to employers cancelling plans.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, balducci wrote:
...
"In the individual insurance plan market [for 2015], just 400,000 people, or 2.2 percent of the overall market, had plans canceled after they received a letter citing lack of Obamacare compliance for the action."
...


Probably true. By the time we got to 2015, the millions of people who were going to have their plans cancelled because of Obamacare had already had them cancelled.
landmark
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Quote:
This whole thing was profit for insurance and a screwing for the taxpayers.


Both parties cynically deliberately scuttled the public's preferred option: single payer, or at a minimum, a public option. So unless you were in favor of those options, it's kind of disingenuous now to complain of the problem of insurance companies wanting to control the action. The opportunity was there to cut out the insurance companies all together and do what civilized countries do at half the cost presently being spent.
S2000magician
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On Sep 10, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Who should I sue?

Whom should I sue?
landmark
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On Sep 23, 2015, RNK wrote:
Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.


Totally ridiculous statement.

Do you really think people have the memory of a flea?

There was a reason that Congress actually addressed medical insurance reform, even as awfully as they executed it: precisely because of the outcry over already increasing premiums and deductibles. It was clear even to the elite that the system was unsustainable, and that the will of the people could no longer be ignored.

And then the party you support made it clear that what they would not do is support any method that cut out the insurance companies.

So please, spare us your outrage. The record is there for anyone to see.
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, balducci wrote:
...
"In the individual insurance plan market [for 2015], just 400,000 people, or 2.2 percent of the overall market, had plans canceled after they received a letter citing lack of Obamacare compliance for the action."
...


Probably true. By the time we got to 2015, the millions of people who were going to have their plans cancelled because of Obamacare had already had them cancelled.

Not quite. As you may recall, or more likely not, exemptions were granted and adjustments to the law were made. So the actual number of cancellations pre-2015 was a tiny fraction of what the critics predicted.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
S2000magician
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On Sep 15, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
I think no on should be discriminated against . . . .

You are, of course, wrong.

You discriminate against people all the time, and you should. Discernment is a virtue.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, balducci wrote:
...
"In the individual insurance plan market [for 2015], just 400,000 people, or 2.2 percent of the overall market, had plans canceled after they received a letter citing lack of Obamacare compliance for the action."
...


Probably true. By the time we got to 2015, the millions of people who were going to have their plans cancelled because of Obamacare had already had them cancelled.

Not quite. As you may recall, or more likely not, exemptions were granted and adjustments to the law were made. So the actual number of cancellations pre-2015 was a tiny fraction of what the critics predicted.



"A tiny fraction of what the critics predicted" is still a pretty big number. And a number far greater than the proponents promised.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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