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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 10, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Who should I sue?

Whom should I sue?


Probably the same person as The Hermit. Smile
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, landmark wrote:
There was a reason that Congress actually addressed medical insurance reform, even as awfully as they executed it: precisely because of the outcry over already increasing premiums and deductibles. It was clear even to the elite that the system was unsustainable, and that the will of the people could no longer be ignored.


Agreed, but why was the answer compulsory health care?

Also, why was the will of the people was all of a sudden something to be considered when it was ignored, without consideration, so often before?

Quote:
And then the party you support made it clear that what they would not do is support any method that cut out the insurance companies.


Because they won't bite the hand that feeds them, which is an indictment of America today.

Quote:
So please, spare us your outrage. The record is there for anyone to see.


A record which doesn't really reflect the feelings of those who were forced to change.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
RNK
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, RNK wrote:
Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.


Wow, talk about a broad-brush and disingenuous statement! Really? "Skyrocketing"? For EVERYBODY? Actually, some parts of the law actually help to reduce premium costs.
Quote:



Ron


Please, for majority its sky rocketing and deductibles are horrible not to mention you HAVE to use the SAME doctor. There were a few good things from the ACA but the majority of the law which the majority of Americans did NOT want sucks!
rockwall
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Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, landmark wrote:
...
Both parties cynically deliberately scuttled the public's preferred option: single payer...


Yeah, not so much.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat......le-paye/

(I realize that the article is rating Nader's claim that the public has supported single payer for 70 years but if you read the whole thing, you'll see how proponents of single payer have rigged the questions in polls to try and show majority support when none existed any number of times.)
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, landmark wrote:
...
Both parties cynically deliberately scuttled the public's preferred option: single payer...


Yeah, not so much.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat......le-paye/

(I realize that the article is rating Nader's claim that the public has supported single payer for 70 years but if you read the whole thing, you'll see how proponents of single payer have rigged the questions in polls to try and show majority support when none existed any number of times.)



I wonder what he'd have to say to get a Pants on Fire.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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I stopped reading here:

"To get a longer view of the polling, we contacted two polling experts: Liz Hamel, the Kaiser foundation’s public opinion and survey research director; and Karlyn Bowman, a senior fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute."

Please. Experts? PR flacks for a very specific position would be a whole lot more accurate.
LobowolfXXX
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So, really, the perfect people to contact about a Michael Moore claim.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Really? Someone's whose salary comes from the insurance industry is the perfect person to tell the truth about the insurance industry?
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, RNK wrote:
Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.


Wow, talk about a broad-brush and disingenuous statement! Really? "Skyrocketing"? For EVERYBODY? Actually, some parts of the law actually help to reduce premium costs.
Quote:



Ron


Please, for majority its sky rocketing and deductibles are horrible not to mention you HAVE to use the SAME doctor. There were a few good things from the ACA but the majority of the law which the majority of Americans did NOT want sucks!


Some premiums may have increased (as they always have), but they are not "skyrocketing" (see my previous chart). There are different plans to choose from and deductibles vary. As far as "you HAVE to use the SAME doctor", that's flat out wrong. See Obamacare Myths...

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-myths/
Quote:
ObamaCare Myth: You Can Keep Your Doctor

No section of the Affordable Care Act (check out our summary of every provision in the PPACA) says you can or cannot keep your doctor. Keeping your doctor is between you and your doctor, having them covered by your plan depends upon your network. Your network is determined by your insurance company, not by the new healthcare law. Your provider determines the network of doctors and hospitals that you have access to. So, if your insurance company changes your plan or offers you a new one, there is no guarantee that you can keep your doctor. This was the case before the ACA too. It’s always smart to ask your doctor what type of insurance they take when you shop for insurance.



And then there's this...

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/06/04/
Quote:
Health plans had big premium hikes before Obamacare

Individual health insurance premiums in the years before President Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law had large average increases and a high variability in rate hikes across different states and insurers, a study released Thursday found.


And here are the individual provisions of the ACA. Which ones do you feel are the good ones and which ones "suck"? Do you really believe that the majority of these provisions are bad for consumers??

http://obamacarefacts.com/summary-of-pro......are-act/
Sec. 2711. No lifetime or annual limits. Prohibits all plans from establishing lifetime or unreasonable annual limits on the dollar value of benefits.

Sec. 2712. Prohibition on rescissions. Prohibits all plans from rescinding coverage except in instances of fraud or misrepresentation.

Sec. 2713. Coverage of preventive health services. Requires all plans to cover preventive services and immunizations recommended by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force and the CDC, and certain child preventive services recommended by the Health Resources and Services Administration, without any cost-sharing.

Sec. 2714. Extension of dependent coverage. Requires all plans offering dependent coverage to allow unmarried individuals until age 26 to remain on their parents’ health insurance.

Sec. 2715. Development and utilization of uniform explanation of coverage documents and standardized definitions. Requires the Secretary to develop standards for use by health insurers in compiling and providing an accurate summary of benefits and explanation of coverage. The standards must be in a uniform format, using language that is easily understood by the average enrollee, and must include uniform definitions of standard insurance and medical terms. The explanation must also describe any cost-sharing, exceptions, reductions, and limitations on coverage, and examples to illustrate common benefits scenarios.

Sec. 2716. Prohibition of discrimination based on salary. Employers that provide health coverage will be prohibited from limiting eligibility for coverage based on the wages or salaries of full-time employees.

Sec. 2717. Ensuring quality of care. Requires the Secretary to develop guidelines for use by health insurers to report information on initiatives and programs that improve health outcomes through the use of care coordination and chronic disease management, prevent hospital readmissions and improve patient safety, and promote wellness and health.

Sec. 2718. Bringing down the cost of health care coverage. Health insurance companies will be required to report publicly the percentage of total premium revenue that is expended on clinical services, and quality rather than administrative costs. Health insurance companies will be required to refund each enrollee by the amount by which premium revenue expended by the health insurer for non-claims costs exceeds 20 percent in the group market and 25 percent in the individual market. The requirement to provide a refund expires on December 31, 2013, but the requirement to report percentages continues.

Sec. 2719. Appeals process. Health insurers will be required to implement an effective process for appeals of coverage determinations and claims.

Sec. 1002. Health insurance consumer information. The Secretary shall award grants to States to enable them (or the Exchange) to establish, expand, or provide support for offices of health insurance consumer assistance or health insurance ombudsman programs. These independent offices will assist consumers with filing complaints and appeals, educate consumers on their rights and responsibilities, and collect, track, and quantify consumer problems and inquiries. Provides $30 million in funding and is effective upon the date of enactment of the bill.

Sec. 1003. Ensuring that consumers get value for their dollars. For plan years beginning in 2010, the Secretary and States will establish a process for the annual review of increases in premiums for health insurance coverage. Requires States to make recommendations to their Exchanges about whether health insurance issuers should be excluded from participation in the Exchanges based on unjustified premium increases. Provides $250 million in funding to States from 2010 until 2014 to assist States in reviewing and, if appropriate under State law, approving premium increases for health insurance coverage and in providing information and recommendations to the Secretary.

Sec. 1004. Effective dates. Except for sections 1002 and 1003 (effective upon the date of enactment of this Act), this subtitle shall become effective for plan years beginning on or after the date that is 6 months after the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 1101. Immediate access to insurance for people with a preexisting condition. Enacts a temporary insurance program with financial assistance for those who have been uninsured for several months and have a pre-existing condition. Ensures premium rate limits for the newly insured population. Provides up to $5 billion for this program, which terminates when the American Health Benefit Exchanges are operational in 2014. Also establishes a transition to the Exchanges for eligible individuals.

Sec. 1102. Reinsurance for early retirees. Establishes a temporary reinsurance program to provide reimbursement to participating employment-based plans for part of the cost of providing health benefits to retirees (age 55-64) and their families. The program reimburses participating employment-based plans for 80 percent of the cost of benefits provided per enrollee in excess of $15,000 and below $90,000. The plans are required to use the funds to lower costs borne directly by participants and beneficiaries, and the program incentivizes plans to implement programs and procedures to better manage chronic conditions. The act appropriates $5 billion for this fund and funds are available until expended.

Sec. 1103. Immediate information that allows consumers to identify affordable coverage options. Establishes an Internet portal for beneficiaries to easily access affordable and comprehensive coverage options. This information will include eligibility, availability, premium rates, cost sharing, and the percentage of total premium revenues spent on health care, rather than administrative expenses, by the issuer.

Sec. 1104. Administrative simplification. Accelerates HHS adoption of uniform standards and operating rules for the electronic transactions that occur between providers and health plans that are governed under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (such as benefit eligibility verification, prior authorization and electronic funds transfer payments). Establishes a process to regularly update the standards and operating rules for electronic transactions and requires health plans to certify compliance or face financial penalties collected by the Treasury Secretary. The goal of this section is to make the health system more efficient by reducing the clerical burden on providers, patients, and health plans.

Sec. 2701. Fair health insurance premiums. Establishes that premiums in the individual and small group markets may vary only by family structure, geography, the actuarial value of the benefit, age (limited to a ratio of 3 to 1), and tobacco use (limited to a ratio of 1.5 to 1).

Sec. 2702. Guaranteed availability of coverage. Each health insurance issuer must accept every employer and individual in the State that applies for coverage, permitting annual and special open enrollment periods for those with qualifying lifetime events.

Sec. 2703. Guaranteed renewability of coverage. Requires guaranteed renewability of coverage regardless of health status, utilization of health services or any other related factor.

Sec. 2704. Prohibition of preexisting condition exclusions or other discrimination based on health status. No group health plan or insurer offering group or individual coverage may impose any pre-existing condition exclusion or discriminate against those who have been sick in the past.

Sec. 2705. Prohibiting discrimination against individual participants and beneficiaries based on health status. No group health plan or insurer offering group or individual coverage may set eligibility rules based on health status, medical condition, claims experience, receipt of health care, medical history, genetic information, evidence of insurability – including acts of domestic violence or disability. Permits employers to vary insurance premiums by as much as 30 percent for employee participation in certain health promotion and disease prevention programs. Authorizes a 10-State demonstration to apply such a program in the individual market.

Sec. 2706. Non-discrimination in health care. Prohibits discrimination against health care providers acting within the scope of their professional license and applicable State laws.

Sec. 2707. Comprehensive health insurance coverage. Requires health insurance issuers in the small group and individual markets to include coverage which incorporates defined essential benefits, provides a specified actuarial value, and requires all health plans to comply with limitations on allowable cost-sharing.

Sec. 2708. Prohibition on excessive waiting periods. Prohibits any waiting periods for group or individual coverage which exceed 90 days.

Sec. 1251. Preservation of right to maintain existing coverage. Allows any individual enrolled in any form of health insurance to maintain their coverage as it existed on the date of enactment.

Sec. 1252. Rating reforms must apply uniformly to all health insurance issuers and group health plans. Standards and requirements adopted by States must be applied uniformly to all plans in each relevant insurance market in a State.

Sec. 1253. Effective dates. All provisions in this subtitle take effect on January 1, 2014.



The More People Are Told About Obamacare, The More They Like It
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/12/......re-sway/
Quote:
One year into the full implementation of the Affordable Care Act, Americans remain confused about what the law actually does — and public opinion toward Obamacare is easily swayed depending on small changes to the amount of information people receive about it.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s most recent monthly tracking poll, overall opinion about the law remains negative, even though large portions of Americans do support the specific provisions that comprise Obamacare. The disconnect reflects a general confusion about how exactly the law functions; pollsters have been tracking this dynamic for years, even as millions of people enroll in plans on Obamacare’s new state marketplaces.


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, landmark wrote:
Really? Someone's whose salary comes from the insurance industry is the perfect person to tell the truth about the insurance industry?


Ahhhh excellent sleight of brain! The truth or falsity in question isn't at all about the insurance industry; it's about public sentiment.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, RNK wrote:
Don't forget the ACA helped with sky rocketing premiums and deductibles for everybody.


Wow, talk about a broad-brush and disingenuous statement! Really? "Skyrocketing"? For EVERYBODY? Actually, some parts of the law actually help to reduce premium costs.
Quote:



Ron


Please, for majority its sky rocketing and deductibles are horrible not to mention you HAVE to use the SAME doctor. There were a few good things from the ACA but the majority of the law which the majority of Americans did NOT want sucks!


Some premiums may have increased (as they always have), but they are not "skyrocketing" (see my previous chart). There are different plans to choose from and deductibles vary. As far as "you HAVE to use the SAME doctor", that's flat out wrong. See Obamacare Myths...

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-myths/
Quote:
ObamaCare Myth: You Can Keep Your Doctor

No section of the Affordable Care Act (check out our summary of every provision in the PPACA) says you can or cannot keep your doctor. Keeping your doctor is between you and your doctor, having them covered by your plan depends upon your network. Your network is determined by your insurance company, not by the new healthcare law. Your provider determines the network of doctors and hospitals that you have access to. So, if your insurance company changes your plan or offers you a new one, there is no guarantee that you can keep your doctor. This was the case before the ACA too. It’s always smart to ask your doctor what type of insurance they take when you shop for insurance.



And then there's this...

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/06/04/
Quote:
Health plans had big premium hikes before Obamacare

Individual health insurance premiums in the years before President Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law had large average increases and a high variability in rate hikes across different states and insurers, a study released Thursday found.


And here are the individual provisions of the ACA. Which ones do you feel are the good ones and which ones "suck"? Do you really believe that the majority of these provisions are bad for consumers??

http://obamacarefacts.com/summary-of-pro......are-act/
Sec. 2711. No lifetime or annual limits. Prohibits all plans from establishing lifetime or unreasonable annual limits on the dollar value of benefits.

Sec. 2712. Prohibition on rescissions. Prohibits all plans from rescinding coverage except in instances of fraud or misrepresentation.

Sec. 2713. Coverage of preventive health services. Requires all plans to cover preventive services and immunizations recommended by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force and the CDC, and certain child preventive services recommended by the Health Resources and Services Administration, without any cost-sharing.

Sec. 2714. Extension of dependent coverage. Requires all plans offering dependent coverage to allow unmarried individuals until age 26 to remain on their parents’ health insurance.

Sec. 2715. Development and utilization of uniform explanation of coverage documents and standardized definitions. Requires the Secretary to develop standards for use by health insurers in compiling and providing an accurate summary of benefits and explanation of coverage. The standards must be in a uniform format, using language that is easily understood by the average enrollee, and must include uniform definitions of standard insurance and medical terms. The explanation must also describe any cost-sharing, exceptions, reductions, and limitations on coverage, and examples to illustrate common benefits scenarios.

Sec. 2716. Prohibition of discrimination based on salary. Employers that provide health coverage will be prohibited from limiting eligibility for coverage based on the wages or salaries of full-time employees.

Sec. 2717. Ensuring quality of care. Requires the Secretary to develop guidelines for use by health insurers to report information on initiatives and programs that improve health outcomes through the use of care coordination and chronic disease management, prevent hospital readmissions and improve patient safety, and promote wellness and health.

Sec. 2718. Bringing down the cost of health care coverage. Health insurance companies will be required to report publicly the percentage of total premium revenue that is expended on clinical services, and quality rather than administrative costs. Health insurance companies will be required to refund each enrollee by the amount by which premium revenue expended by the health insurer for non-claims costs exceeds 20 percent in the group market and 25 percent in the individual market. The requirement to provide a refund expires on December 31, 2013, but the requirement to report percentages continues.

Sec. 2719. Appeals process. Health insurers will be required to implement an effective process for appeals of coverage determinations and claims.

Sec. 1002. Health insurance consumer information. The Secretary shall award grants to States to enable them (or the Exchange) to establish, expand, or provide support for offices of health insurance consumer assistance or health insurance ombudsman programs. These independent offices will assist consumers with filing complaints and appeals, educate consumers on their rights and responsibilities, and collect, track, and quantify consumer problems and inquiries. Provides $30 million in funding and is effective upon the date of enactment of the bill.

Sec. 1003. Ensuring that consumers get value for their dollars. For plan years beginning in 2010, the Secretary and States will establish a process for the annual review of increases in premiums for health insurance coverage. Requires States to make recommendations to their Exchanges about whether health insurance issuers should be excluded from participation in the Exchanges based on unjustified premium increases. Provides $250 million in funding to States from 2010 until 2014 to assist States in reviewing and, if appropriate under State law, approving premium increases for health insurance coverage and in providing information and recommendations to the Secretary.

Sec. 1004. Effective dates. Except for sections 1002 and 1003 (effective upon the date of enactment of this Act), this subtitle shall become effective for plan years beginning on or after the date that is 6 months after the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 1101. Immediate access to insurance for people with a preexisting condition. Enacts a temporary insurance program with financial assistance for those who have been uninsured for several months and have a pre-existing condition. Ensures premium rate limits for the newly insured population. Provides up to $5 billion for this program, which terminates when the American Health Benefit Exchanges are operational in 2014. Also establishes a transition to the Exchanges for eligible individuals.

Sec. 1102. Reinsurance for early retirees. Establishes a temporary reinsurance program to provide reimbursement to participating employment-based plans for part of the cost of providing health benefits to retirees (age 55-64) and their families. The program reimburses participating employment-based plans for 80 percent of the cost of benefits provided per enrollee in excess of $15,000 and below $90,000. The plans are required to use the funds to lower costs borne directly by participants and beneficiaries, and the program incentivizes plans to implement programs and procedures to better manage chronic conditions. The act appropriates $5 billion for this fund and funds are available until expended.

Sec. 1103. Immediate information that allows consumers to identify affordable coverage options. Establishes an Internet portal for beneficiaries to easily access affordable and comprehensive coverage options. This information will include eligibility, availability, premium rates, cost sharing, and the percentage of total premium revenues spent on health care, rather than administrative expenses, by the issuer.

Sec. 1104. Administrative simplification. Accelerates HHS adoption of uniform standards and operating rules for the electronic transactions that occur between providers and health plans that are governed under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (such as benefit eligibility verification, prior authorization and electronic funds transfer payments). Establishes a process to regularly update the standards and operating rules for electronic transactions and requires health plans to certify compliance or face financial penalties collected by the Treasury Secretary. The goal of this section is to make the health system more efficient by reducing the clerical burden on providers, patients, and health plans.

Sec. 2701. Fair health insurance premiums. Establishes that premiums in the individual and small group markets may vary only by family structure, geography, the actuarial value of the benefit, age (limited to a ratio of 3 to 1), and tobacco use (limited to a ratio of 1.5 to 1).

Sec. 2702. Guaranteed availability of coverage. Each health insurance issuer must accept every employer and individual in the State that applies for coverage, permitting annual and special open enrollment periods for those with qualifying lifetime events.

Sec. 2703. Guaranteed renewability of coverage. Requires guaranteed renewability of coverage regardless of health status, utilization of health services or any other related factor.

Sec. 2704. Prohibition of preexisting condition exclusions or other discrimination based on health status. No group health plan or insurer offering group or individual coverage may impose any pre-existing condition exclusion or discriminate against those who have been sick in the past.

Sec. 2705. Prohibiting discrimination against individual participants and beneficiaries based on health status. No group health plan or insurer offering group or individual coverage may set eligibility rules based on health status, medical condition, claims experience, receipt of health care, medical history, genetic information, evidence of insurability – including acts of domestic violence or disability. Permits employers to vary insurance premiums by as much as 30 percent for employee participation in certain health promotion and disease prevention programs. Authorizes a 10-State demonstration to apply such a program in the individual market.

Sec. 2706. Non-discrimination in health care. Prohibits discrimination against health care providers acting within the scope of their professional license and applicable State laws.

Sec. 2707. Comprehensive health insurance coverage. Requires health insurance issuers in the small group and individual markets to include coverage which incorporates defined essential benefits, provides a specified actuarial value, and requires all health plans to comply with limitations on allowable cost-sharing.

Sec. 2708. Prohibition on excessive waiting periods. Prohibits any waiting periods for group or individual coverage which exceed 90 days.

Sec. 1251. Preservation of right to maintain existing coverage. Allows any individual enrolled in any form of health insurance to maintain their coverage as it existed on the date of enactment.

Sec. 1252. Rating reforms must apply uniformly to all health insurance issuers and group health plans. Standards and requirements adopted by States must be applied uniformly to all plans in each relevant insurance market in a State.

Sec. 1253. Effective dates. All provisions in this subtitle take effect on January 1, 2014.



The More People Are Told About Obamacare, The More They Like It
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/12/......re-sway/
Quote:
One year into the full implementation of the Affordable Care Act, Americans remain confused about what the law actually does — and public opinion toward Obamacare is easily swayed depending on small changes to the amount of information people receive about it.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s most recent monthly tracking poll, overall opinion about the law remains negative, even though large portions of Americans do support the specific provisions that comprise Obamacare. The disconnect reflects a general confusion about how exactly the law functions; pollsters have been tracking this dynamic for years, even as millions of people enroll in plans on Obamacare’s new state marketplaces.


Ron


Bad for which consumers? Costs were intended to rise for some. As for keeping your doctor, it's not quite the point about the specific provisions, is it? It's how the ACA was sold to the public. Hundreds of thousands, conservatively, who were happy with their former plan were told that they'd be able to keep it, and lost it, which would not have happened but for the ACA.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, landmark wrote:
Really? Someone's whose salary comes from the insurance industry is the perfect person to tell the truth about the insurance industry?


Ahhhh excellent sleight of brain! The truth or falsity in question isn't at all about the insurance industry; it's about public sentiment.

Uh...public sentiment about the insurance industry.
R.S.
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Bad for which consumers?

Well, YOU'RE a consumer... which of those provisions do YOU not agree with, and why? Which ones do you like? You're certainly entitled to your opinion here.

Quote:
Costs were intended to rise for some.


For who? Where in the actual ACA does it specifically state that?

Quote:
As for keeping your doctor, it's not quite the point about the specific provisions, is it? It's how the ACA was sold to the public. Hundreds of thousands, conservatively, who were happy with their former plan were told that they'd be able to keep it, and lost it, which would not have happened but for the ACA.


Why couldn't they keep their plan? Could it possibly be because the plans weren't compliant with the new law? Is it possible that some (most) of those people ended up with better plans? And what of those millions who didn't have ANY insurance before the ACA? Do they not factor into the equation?

Look, I know this isn't the perfect solution, but we all know there is no such thing as a "perfect solution" to healthcare. Somebody somewhere will always have a complaint. And like everyone else, I don't particularly enjoy seeing the deductions come out of my paycheck. But what's the alternative? I think (along with most people) that this is a step in the right direction. Time will tell. And hey, if in 5 or 10 years we're in a worse state of affairs with healthcare than we were, then I'll be all for trying something else. Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
balducci
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Here, have some chum.

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 24, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Costs were intended to rise for some.


For who?


For young, healthy people.

Quote:
Where in the actual ACA does it specifically state that?


A primary architect of the bill said it, it appeared in, I believe, a legislative analysis, and the White House admitted to it, and said that we're that not the case, the ACA would not work. It's not a debatable claim; it was done by design.


Quote:
As for keeping your doctor, it's not quite the point about the specific provisions, is it? It's how the ACA was sold to the public.


Right; that complaint was not about the specific provisions, it was about the foreseeable consequences and the misleading way it was sold to the public.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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