The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All tied up! » » How far will theatrical license go. (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
As this forum is open to public view I think sometimes we forget this. My question here is,,,,,yes we all elaborate and include bs from time to time but how far should this go.

I used to make my income from being a plumber !! On another thread here there was reference to the use of a water professor !!! Now this is a new one on me, so anyone here shed light.

Result is if I doubt such statements, unless the general public is as thick as s##t they will too. This is detrimental to the image one is trying to perceive. On the same thread, many lies in the guise of truth have been used. So if I can find this out easily so can the public.

So how much of a liar is it acceptable to be in the name of entertainment.
Cliffg37
View Profile
Inner circle
Long Beach, CA
2475 Posts

Profile of Cliffg37
My guess is that a water professor is a college teacher, or graduate level degree holder in the science of water. Here we call it a Geosciences degree. Personally I have a certificate and credential to teach water science, so my guess is that it is someone who is knowlegable about how water will travel and affect the outcome of a situation. Example: Joe Burrus did not have a water professor handy at his ill-fated stunt. If he'd had one, he would have been told about how the recent rain should have postponed his stunt as wet soil is substantially heavier than dry.

I will not comment on how much lying should be done. I have no clue what anyone else should do. I try to lie blatenly on stage only when I feel it necessary, which is really not too often.

"We are all going to hell for lying... The box is empty..." - Aldo Colombini
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
Thankyou for that. Sounds like such a person could command a good fee for their services, so not to be employed on a whim ! Interesting ! Smile
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5105 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
When you do what you say, there's no point in lying.

One of the business problems I've run into, over the years, is that I don't lie, and many of my competitors do. I choose not to drink from a poisoned well.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
With you on that Harley, it gives you the upper hand knowing that you can carry through. That way you supply what you offer without compromise.
Roslyn
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
3404 Posts

Profile of Roslyn
Theatrical license and blatant lies are two very different things.

Putting an upper limit on theatrical license stems creativity and ultimately damages art.

The employment of experts does not fall in to either of these two categories though; unless the use of an expert is claimed when they have not been used or if one has been used and that use is then denied. How anyone could benefit from either of these things is beyond me. Since Ken made reference to buried alive I can tell you that experts were consulted. The reason for these experts was due to a concern regarding the water table and the heavy rain in the area during the week leading up to the event. Neither of these things ended up being an issue on the day. But it's always worth checking. The last thing the event needed was for the hole to be below the water table or for the run-off coming down from the surrounding hills to fill the hole with water.

As for their fee, usually yes they would cost some serious coin. However, on this occasion they (alongside everyone else who took part in the event) graciously donated their time and knowledge for free to what was a charitable event raising money and awareness for Bloodwise.

But this has nothing to do with the original question of "How far will theatrical license go?". And the answer to that, in my opinion, is it'll go as far as each individual performer/artist/director wants to take it. Some will take it further than others. Those pushing boundaries will be chastised by those who think they are going too far and the same is true the other way around. The point to remember is that art is a subjective beast that is personal to the artist who created it. Sometimes others can appreciate that art too, other times they cannot. But that doesn't make it any more or less valid. It just makes some pieces and some artists more popular than others.

Also, one must remember that in any theatrical performance things are never quite what they seem. The door may look like a door and feel like a door but it could turn out to be merely a painting, a clever ruse used by the artist to suggest the existence of a door when in reality the door never was nor will it ever be.



*Before anyone jumps all over this: With the exception of the paragraph regarding experts used during buried alive this post has nothing to do with that event or with Escape for Life. It is my answer to the original question based on my current opinion. In future that opinion may change, or it may not change, I don't know. But right now this is what I think.
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
My home online
Join me on Facebook
Follow me on twitter
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
Hahaha no comment !!
Roslyn
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
3404 Posts

Profile of Roslyn
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2015, Kondini wrote:
Hahaha no comment !!


Shame. I was hoping this thread was going to become an interesting and useful discussion on performance art. It's a great topic that should be discussed. A breath of fresh air among the standard "which lock is best" and "what DVDs are great for beginners" posts that this board is full of.
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
My home online
Join me on Facebook
Follow me on twitter
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
It DOES raise some discussion fodder in light of Houdini's many "publicity legends," and of his statement, "It's not what you actually do that counts, but what the audience (public) thinks you do.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5105 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
Houdini's a great example.

Long ago, I talked with folks who remembered his performance. Their opinions were far lower than that of his PR. I realize that they'd seen his show at the end of his career, when he'd burned himself out physically, and had ambitions that were beyond the level of his ability at the time. When he was doing 20-minute vaudeville slots, I'm sure he was great.

And I'd say that the thing that killed him was his PR. He had such a great knack for putting a story out, and when it came back to him, he could manipulate the reporter. Being hit in the belly was but one example of this. But it certainly bit him.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
Harley Newman
View Profile
Inner circle
5105 Posts

Profile of Harley Newman
And if he were alive and performing now, his PR antics would be caught immediately. He'd be shamed.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

www.bladewalker.com
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3607 Posts

Profile of Kondini
Spot on Harley that's exactly what's happened over here with the non buried rubbish. He got caught and challenged and failed.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Yep-news travels faster now, and is analyzed more easily.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Roslyn
View Profile
Inner circle
UK
3404 Posts

Profile of Roslyn
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2015, Kondini wrote:
Spot on Harley that's exactly what's happened over here with the non buried rubbish. He got caught and challenged and failed.


Its not exactly what's happened over here with buried alive though is it? Antony has never claimed he did something that he didn't. The papers haven't reported something that never was, or even something that's been embellished. What's been reported is that Antony tried the buried alive escape under the same conditions as Houdini and Alan Alan did. Unfortunately his attempt also had the same result that Houdini and Alan Alan had, ie he didn't get out.

Nobody has been caught because there's nothing to catch. The story is a very simple one. Man got in hole, man didn't get himself out of hole so man had to be rescued. And he was. The guys who pulled him out were rehearsed in what they had to do should something go wrong and they executed that plan perfectly. The press then picked up the story and have been running with it ever since.

But again, this has nothing to do with artistic or theatrical license and everything to do with having a back-up plan and a back-up for the back-up. Any EA without such things in place would truly be foolish and a contender for the Darwin Awards. Theatrical license would be, as an example, having a piece of equipment that was made with the escapist in mind that contained the method of escape within its construction and then publicly claiming it was an ungaffed genuine restraint with a genuine purpose on loan to the escapist for one season only. That's more than a tiny manipulation of the truth, that's theatrical license taken to the extreme. Some will agree with it, others will see it as blatant lies that exists only to deceive the audience and shouldn't be on stage.

I'm ok with it, as long as it's done within a theatrical context. And like all good theatre the audience should leave having experienced a range of emotions but they shouldn't leave still believing the lies. Otherwise this puts the performer in the same boat as mediums, psychics and the like who would have you believe their mentalism tricks are achieved by using special powers or an unnatural ability when it comes to the use of psychology or suggestion. It's all BS. It's all a smoke screen.
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
My home online
Join me on Facebook
Follow me on twitter
magicbymccauley
View Profile
Special user
827 Posts

Profile of magicbymccauley
It's interesting and stunning to me why people would do an escape the way that houdini and alan alan did it. Seems to me to be way too difficult. It depends on your budget of course but I would have an ENTIRELY different method of doing it, even resorting to illusion and magic tricks to do it rather than doing it as a physical challenge. As a physical challenge it seems way too dangerous to me. A door covered in earth you have to push open? No thanks!

There are many ways to effect this escape that don't involve the physical pushing away of dirt while actually buried. Without going into specific methods I'd much prefer some of the ways others have done it as an illusion.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
magicbymccauley
View Profile
Special user
827 Posts

Profile of magicbymccauley
It's also stunning to me that people would do something for the public they haven't fully done in private. I would build a coffin and do 1/2 an inch of dirt on top. Escape. Repeat with an inch. Stop when it gets to be too much. Find alternate strategies with more dirt. Make it look like you're using more dirt than you actually are, use artifice to aid you, etc. etc. etc.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
dave_matkin
View Profile
Inner circle
4303 Posts

Profile of dave_matkin
You are surely not suggesting do something to practise and sucsessfully escape? What get out almost alive? Surely not!
magicbymccauley
View Profile
Special user
827 Posts

Profile of magicbymccauley
I know some magicians who seriously get a trick read the instructions and do the trick that night for an audience with no previous practice. Okay, that may be okay for a twisting the aces effect but I wouldn't reccomend it for twisting out of 1 ton of dirt, lol.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
magicbymccauley
View Profile
Special user
827 Posts

Profile of magicbymccauley
Relevant:
http://tosh.cc.com/video-clips/657eyb/we......censored

Note teller's one word admonition at the end.
"Tricks are about objects, Magic is about life."
-Max Maven
Rook
View Profile
Special user
I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy
773 Posts

Profile of Rook
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2015, magicbymccauley wrote:
Relevant:
http://tosh.cc.com/video-clips/657eyb/we......censored

Note teller's one word admonition at the end.


This is indeed amusing. Something tells me, however, that Tosh edited in the comment (appropriate though it may be).
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.

-Roald Dahl
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All tied up! » » How far will theatrical license go. (1 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL