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actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
So I'm on my usual nightly hunt for curiosities and odd findings, and I come across this strange wax seal on ebay:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAyWDkwMw==/z......SNM/.JPG I've been looking for a cool wax seal to incorporate in some routines, and also just for my collection of oddities and this one really stood out to me. I think the letters are some sort of coptic alphabet, but I'm not sure. Whether it is or not, it really looks like some sort of mysterious code or credo but that may just be my imagination. It would definitely be a cool possibly eerie looking seal on something in full wax... Any thoughts on what language this is? Or perhaps what it could mean?
*I knew you were going to read this
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YitzhakNoDice Special user Portland, Oregon 517 Posts |
Fascinating! No two characters match. Is it possible it is written in multiple languages? The only characters I recognise are the last line in Hebrew: ואצ (written in cursive). This translates to 'loach'. That could be the bottom-dwelling fish or a person's last name.
It would be a stretch to say it was entirely in Hebrew, if so I'd speculate the first line are graphic symbol then: חאק סהזש ואצ Putting it together: חא יק סה זש ואצ, where I have changed the spacings to form different words and adding a dropped י . Reading right to left as Hebrew does, the first word means "the" and defines the tense, the next word (you are going to love this!) really confounded me. The ק needs a vowel carrier, so the word is obfuscated; here is where I added the letter י and the word now translates as 'magic'. The other words are out of order when translated word-for-word. The whole translates as: "The magic is 6 fold accelerated." or perhaps "The magic is 6 fold increased". But, take that with a pillar of salt as it is a stretch to identify (force) Hebrew letters into some of those characters. Of course, you can probably get away with any translation you want...the one that best fits the story you are telling.
A wise man's question contains half the answer. - Solomon ben Judah, Philosopher
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
It is a secret society language and if they tell you what it says they will have to kill you. Either that or each letter stands for a word and says, "He who enters covered here, buys the bar a round of cheer!"
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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lin Special user California 876 Posts |
Hey Bryn,
Those (mostly) look like Greek letters, but is the image reversed? If not, the wax impression would come out backwards. |
actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2015, YitzhakNoDice wrote: Coming from a Jewish background myself, I loved your analysis! I do think it is a bit of a stretch but certain letters are very Hebrew to me. I think the middle letter on the bottom row looks like a clear aleph to me. However, the middle position on the top row doesn't even look like a letter. It looks more like a star or a crown. Rolling with the Hebrew interpretation, it there any correlation perhaps between that position and an image symbolizing the Keter in the sephirot? There are a little more than 10 figures, but the way the seal is structured there may may certain plausibility in association with the Sephirot. ...I was referencing some of my literature and the internet last night, and certain letters look very Greek. However, I mentioned in my top post that some letters look even Coptic- which would be an interesting combination on a Greek/Egyptian type message. That being said, if the seal is identified as that what would it MEAN I wonder….
*I knew you were going to read this
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Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
It is a Byzantine era ring.
The letters are a combination of greek and latin. Most writing like this, especially on ancient coins and other objects with limited surfaces were in recognizable abbreaveations. The first line appears to have a star, a cross and a fish (most Christian symbols, although the star was borrowed from Roman coins, usually indicating a ruler born under a special sign (Ceasar, Christ, Constentine). The second line may be a badly written "Anno" which indicates a reignal year. Or it may be the abbreaveation for Antioch. The third line is probably a name (once again abreaveated). I'm not at home so I can't look it up, but it may be the name of a Byzantine emperor. And the forth line is the reignal year. The XI is the 11th year, I'm not sure of the first symbol, not real clear. I'm closer to correct then wrong, but I am not at home with my numerous reference books. That's all I can do right now at work (and on deadline). |
Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
P.S. Yes, it's a ring to make a wax seal on documents.
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actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Al Desmond, thank you for your hypothesis! It think that is definitely something on the right track. Something that I find interesting is that the seal is a little messy, which adds to the intrigue. It's definitely a nice object to wind a tale around... Still on the fence of whether to actually purchase it or just admire it from cyberspace haha
*I knew you were going to read this
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Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
I can tell you it's not worth more than $75.
I collect stuff like this. You didn't link to the actual Ebay ad, so I can't tell how the person is describing it or what he thinks he's going to get for it. Why don't you PM me with the link and I'll get back to you this evening. |
Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
P.S. I have no intention of pulling the deal out from under you. I just want to help.
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YitzhakNoDice Special user Portland, Oregon 517 Posts |
Actorcoop, glad you liked my little analysis. I did not know what to make of the top line. Looking at the middle symbol, it looks like it represents something three-dimensional. Something with 12 directions. Are you with me? The other two symbols are too hard to see (that is my official excuse).
Willie, you must not imply that there is a secret society eavesdropping. It could be dangerous! They would not just kill, because as you and I know, dead people DO tell tales! Al, your explanation is more likely plausible and I look forward to what you dig up. You know me, if I can force some Gematria and Hebrew word play on something, I will. Lin, I wish I were Bryn. Then I would be one of the cool guys, a scholar, and a right nice fellow. I am just the schmoe, Yitzhak. I am so much so that I ignored the fact that the image must be viewed in reverse....or should it? All but two characters are mirror images of each other. If you reverse the characters and realise that the ז is actually a poorly drawn ד and again placing the missing yud, you get: צא ו שד הם יק אח . Here is where is gets interesting, the word שד is a familiar word to many of you. Shed? As in Shedem? Demons, in Hebrew! So it now translates as "Quit and [turn your] breast to the Magic Place of Fire". Oh know! It is a anagram! reading: "The magic is 6 fold increased, quit and [turn the] demon to the Place of Magic Fire" Okay, which one of you has been summoning demons again?
A wise man's question contains half the answer. - Solomon ben Judah, Philosopher
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lin Special user California 876 Posts |
Yar--sorry chaps! I somehow imagined Bryn in the conversation. Blame me being cross-eyed before my AM coffee.
Not a hypothesis: Al knows what he's talking about. |
actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Lin, I say hypothesis because Al's thoughts have been very scientific and analytical regarding the seal. I am glad I posted this in Spooky because I was hoping to get both academic and creative responses
Al, I just PMed you!
*I knew you were going to read this
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actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Yitzhak, too bad I didn't find a seal that said "Gmar Hatimah Tova"… HA!
*I knew you were going to read this
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