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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Sep 29, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote: Funsway when you troll me later and accuse me of being mean spirited and all the things your accuse me of fairly regularly please remember this post of mine. I do agree it is odd to make a claim in an open forum then be all secretive about backing it up. I am not saying anything other than that particular action seeks odd to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I wasn't playing a game as seems to be the fashion here now. Have you ever seen me post anything that was not true?
Why won't you address the issue of the thread rather than be concerned over my posts? I notice that you also have not requested the facts either. That is odd, seeing that you expressed an interest. The story should have been enough for this discussion. Yes, the identity of the saved party and the circumstances will be kept confidential, but I will share details for any who will honor that. again, we are dealing with person's life here, not some hypothetical posturing. as you offered on another thread ... "Facts? Blah. You can prove anything that is even remotely true with facts. The interesting stuff is what you "feel" is right! No facts or research needed either. Just feel it and believe it is right even in the face of facts. " So, why do you need facts? If you truly "feel" I made this up, then no facts will help. If you believe me, no facts are necessary.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yes it appears you quote that out of context for your own purposes. Silly. It was written in support of something Bob has written but you leave all the context out. That is intellectually dishonest.
Also if you make the claim in public there is no reason not to back it up in public. No stories are not enough and incomplete stories even less so. But if you are keeping the identities confidential them what is the harm of sharing it in public? That seems odd to me. I do not "feel" either way about your story. I have no opinion as it is nothing more than that. Also your reluctance sort of speaks for itself. I have no opinion either way. I believe you believe your story that is enough.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Hmmm/. So you do not stand by what you said? There is no purpose except to understand what you mean by wanting the facts.
Context has nothing to do with it. Either it fairly expresses what you feel about facts and "feelings" or it doesn't. Everything seems odd to you, I guess. So, you do have a feeling about the story.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1337 Posts |
I started all of this as I was amazed, upon reflection, that a baby boomer such as myself, growing up in the midwest, would one day find himself using a Neti Pot and having dry-needling as a medical treatment. I was just wondering who else was finding themselves using "alternative" treatments.
Sorry it went down a rabbit hole with funsway's post. Though I have to admit, I did enjoy Opus' phrase of "...that is more ephemeral than mere vapor." I've got to work that into a story somewhere.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, funsway wrote: Are you daft or trolling? Context has EVERYTHING to do with what is written. Your story is little more than a Fairey tale.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I'll await your request and commitment to confidentiality
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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The Hermit Veteran user 301 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, imgic wrote: Use what works I say. Who cares if it's placebo. I had an extruded disc in my neck and was ready to go under the knife (not my first spinal surgery). I went to an accupuncturist and after 3 sessions my pain was gone. Was it my imagination? Who knows. I know the pain was gone. I went back to the neurosurgeon a few weeks later and told him about it. He said I was nuts and that it has to come out or one day it will cause lots of problems. That was 14 years ago. My neck is fine. Whatever happened, I had a positive result - all that matters. BTW if you use a nedi pot, you might check out the NeiMed Sinus Rinse bottle. A better product. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, funsway wrote: You say it like science is a bad thing. The scientific method is the best method we have for separating fact from fiction. So I'm not sure why someone would ignore science - especially when one's health is at stake. At any rate, you are right - a person does have the right to choose for themselves. Nobody is arguing that. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, The Hermit wrote: Well, if placebo is all you're after, then that's all you'll get. If you want something proven to work above and beyond the subjective effects of the placebo response, then you have to look at the results of the placebo-controlled clinical studies. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1337 Posts |
I looked at the sinus rinse bottle, but don't like idea of squeezing water up my nose. I use their nasaflo product. It's gravity based so the water is not forced into sinuses.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, R.S. wrote: Yeah Hermit. Who cares if it actually worked for you? It's all in your head! Your body is actually in debilitating pain and you just don't realize it! |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, rockwall wrote: How you got that out of what I said is beyond me. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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The Hermit Veteran user 301 Posts |
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On Oct 2, 2015, R.S. wrote: I wasn't after placebo, I was after relief. I got it with accupuncture. I don't know how it worked, but it worked. I got the same result without a really difficult neck surgery. The doc was ready to cut and told me nothing else would work. I only went to the accupuncturist after a recommendation from a massage therapist. It worked. Maybe it was placebo (I doubt it). I tried it for tinnitus and it didn't work. My point is that an open mind and experimenting may be a good idea vs ruling things out because they don't fit a narrow view of thinking about what can and cannot work. Science moving forward is almost always the result of one person pushing an idea that is not currently accepted. Think Pasteur, etc. Gotta keep your options open. |
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1337 Posts |
Not so much in the alternative area, bi put relevant is the ownership we must take of our health and treatment. A year ago my daughter had flu like symptoms that wouldn't go away. Going to the ER she was diagnosed with gall stones So into the hospital and a surgeon was assigned a GI doctor. When further tests show no stones, they felt her whole gall bladder had to come out. So she was assigned a surgeon. More testing indicated it wasn't gall bladder at all, but her liver. So now a liver specialist is in charge. And all this time the other doctors aren't talking to one another, there are conflicting and duplicate tests being ordered. We were getting wildly different information and diagnosis.
Without one doctor " quarterbacking" the team it's very difficult to get good good care for any complex medical problems.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On Oct 3, 2015, The Hermit wrote: Nobody said placebo can't offer "relief". It's known that there is a psychological/physiological response that takes place with placebo. Even for conventional treatments. And note that sometimes, doing nothing and just waiting provides relief too, as most pain waxes and wanes to some degree. And treatment is almost always sought when the pain cycle is at it's highest. Quote:
I got it with accupuncture. Since Sham acupuncture (no needles, unbeknownst to the patient) has been shown to be just as effective as real acupuncture, then you probably would have also had relief with Reiki, or Touch Therapy, as they all share the common thread of rebalancing/restoring an undetectable "energy". So there's nothing special about the specific techniques of acupuncture (or about the techniques of Reiki or TT for that matter). Quote:
I don't know how it worked... Here's the acupuncturists explanation: The human body has 12 "meridians" (because there are 12 great rivers in China), and 365 acupoints (because there are 365 days in a year - although some proponents claim a different number). Flowing through these meridians is a mysterious and undetectable energy force called "chi". Disease/illness results when chi gets blocked. Sticking needles into the proper acupoints restores the flow of chi which in turn restores health. So... - Do you believe human anatomy is based on how many rivers there are in China? (would changes in the political boundaries of China result in anatomic changes?) - Do you believe that human anatomy has anything to do with the number of days of the year? (what happens in leap years?) - Do you believe there is a force called "chi", even though nobody has ever been able to demonstrate that it exists? - Did the ancient Chinese possess more medical knowledge than modern doctors? How could that be? Do you think today's doctors possess more medical knowledge now than is likely to be had by the doctors of 3 thousand years from now? Quote:
Maybe it was placebo (I doubt it). I tried it for tinnitus and it didn't work. It very well could have been placebo. In fact, since we KNOW placebo is a real thing, it's more likely that it was that than a deficit of chi in one of the body's never detected 12 Chinese River based chi conduits. And I wonder why it didn't work for tinnitus? So you have one treatment where it worked and one where it didn't. When touting the virtues of acupuncture (or any alternative treatment) could the "remembering the hits and forgetting the misses" phenomenon play a role in the continued popularity of such treatment modalities? Quote:
My point is that an open mind and experimenting may be a good idea vs ruling things out because they don't fit a narrow view of thinking about what can and cannot work. Science moving forward is almost always the result of one person pushing an idea that is not currently accepted. Think Pasteur, etc. Gotta keep your options open. Agree that it's good to keep options open. And the more scientific those options, the better. As I said before, it's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Oct 3, 2015, R.S. wrote: I don't know how I could have gotten anything but that out of what you said. |
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The Hermit Veteran user 301 Posts |
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On Oct 3, 2015, R.S. wrote: Your whole description of Accupuncture is inaccurate. It is not based on the rivers. THere are more than 12. There are more points. You are basing everything off a video that starts from skeptical perspective. You should learn a little more before you use inaccurate info to trash something. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
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On Oct 4, 2015, The Hermit wrote: So, my description is not accurate because there are more unproven assertions?? That's kind of like defending the idea of Santa Claus because someone said there were 6 reindeer instead of 8. A greater number of reindeer doesn't suddenly make Santa Claus more believable. Anyway, there are indeed 12 MAIN meridians. And I did indeed say that the number of acupoints varies (again, not that the exact number is a terribly important point in regards to whether the basic concept is valid or not). And no, I'm not "basing everything off a video" (even though the Novella video is highly informative). And what's wrong with a "skeptical perspective"? Isn't that the best possible perspective? That way, things that really do work will survive scrutiny, while things that don't work will be filtered out. If you take the opposite approach and don't apply skepticism, well then there's no telling what will pass as "legitimate". And as far as me "learning a little more", you're the one who said in a previous post that you don't know how it worked. So which is it - you do know how acupuncture works, or you don't? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
When I got sick, Arrow Chief John Running Bear told me he knew a lot of people who used traditional remedies instead of conventional medicine. He said they all died.
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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