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Salguod Nairb
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I've been listening to the book for almost a week, and I don't want to spoil it for anyone else nor do I want anyone to spoil it for me. It is the scenario that I wish to discuss. Namely, what would you do in that situation? By which, I mean both sides being the stranded astronaut and ground control.

The scenario: By a freak accident and not the fault of the crew or individual, an astronaut is believed to be dead and abandoned on Mars. The astronaut miraculously survives the accident and eventually Earth discovers he is alive and surviving. The food supply has a set number of days that it can be stretched, and though sheltered there are numerous things that could fail and eventually kill the astronaut. Any rescue attempt would have to come from Earth and will take a ton of money and time to implement.

There it is in a basic nutshell. My question to you is would you try to rescue the astronaut? It will cost at least a billion to attempt it and will require the risking of 5 other astronauts (rescue team) lives.

So if you were in charge of making the decision on Earth what would you do? Then answer what you would choose if you were the astronaut. I don't want to cloud your decision by posting my answer with the scenario, so I shall therefore post it in a response.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
mastermindreader
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It seems to me that the mission should never have been undertaken if there wasn't a rescue plan in place.

Further, if the food supply will run out on a given date and multiple systems are subject to failure, why weren't supply and repair missions also ready to go from the beginning?
Salguod Nairb
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To me, it all comes down to risk acceptance. Space in itself is a very dangerous place and as an astronaut you had to accept the risk that you may not survive. Mars isn't the moon meaning that it doesn't stay at a constant distance from the Earth. Also it is a huge sum of money to risk on something with a score of critical failures incorporated into it. I cannot see justifying risking 5 people to save 1, especially with all the unknown variables in play. So as ground control I would choose not to rescue the astronaut.


As the astronaut, I would not want the rescue attempt. Space is so freaking dangerous. I knew the risk I was taking and would not want others to be killed attempting a rescue. Not being suicidal, it's all those uncontrollable variables that exist outside of Earth. Spend a million to rescue me off an island in the Pacific? Sure, I can justify that and pay it back if it came to that. Pay ISIS a billion to rescue me and save my head? Nope. Just send in a drone and take us all out.
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Salguod Nairb
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On Sep 29, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
It seems to me that the mission should never have been undertaken if there wasn't a rescue plan in place.

Further, if the food supply will run out on a given date and multiple systems are subject to failure, why weren't supply and repair missions also ready to go from the beginning?



I don't want to tip too much of the story, but there are contingency resources available. They were not meant to last years though. The planned launches were scheduled based upon the proximity of Mars and Earth to each other. These launce windows can be years apart, do the orbital rotation of the two planets.

Think back to the Moon landings. They didn't have immediate rescue plans available then but they did provide addition resources for the astronauts to use if something went wrong.

I don't remember the exact amount of time, but I believe it takes months for a ship/rocket to reach Mars for Earth and that is when the two planets are at their closest. I'm sure someone on here knows the exact amount of time.
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NYCTwister
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Assuming you could get volunteers for the mission and enough time was available then absolutely.

The money isn't a consideration, for a number of reasons.

As the astronaut - hell yes, come and rescue me.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Cliffg37
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I read the book. No surprise I loved it. But I love sci-fi and I love science.

As a physicist, I know exactly what I would have done in that situation... I would have died. Plain and simple. Oh, I wouldn't give up. I would go down fighting for my life... But I lack the botany skills and the engineering skills of our hero. In face anyone else without those skills might well have not made it.

As for no rescue plan, I think that will come to pass. It all comes down to money and time.
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Salguod Nairb
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I don't know the actual percentage but for sake of argument; if there was only a 30% chance of rescue success would you hold to your original answer?

I'm only trying to reiterate that it isn't as simple as picking you up from the airport. Not trying to change your mind.
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Salguod Nairb
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Oh in the book he is Macguyver in space, but that is the book.

Not long ago they had people volunteering to go to Mars, to pretty well die, and they still had a lot of people signing up. I be more prone to volunteering to go into space (deep) than commit everything on a hostile world.

I'm liking the book too. It inspired this thread.
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NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Sep 29, 2015, Salguod Nairb wrote:
I don't know the actual percentage but for sake of argument; if there was only a 30% chance of rescue success would you hold to your original answer?

I'm only trying to reiterate that it isn't as simple as picking you up from the airport. Not trying to change your mind.


That makes it tougher but at those odds my answer stands, if volunteers could be found.

There is still a reasonably good chance for success, we'd learn a lot from the attempt, and, if successful it would be a story of triumph against great odds which would resonate around the world.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Salguod Nairb
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On Sep 29, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 29, 2015, Salguod Nairb wrote:
I don't know the actual percentage but for sake of argument; if there was only a 30% chance of rescue success would you hold to your original answer?

I'm only trying to reiterate that it isn't as simple as picking you up from the airport. Not trying to change your mind.


That makes it tougher but at those odds my answer stands, if volunteers could be found.

There is still a reasonably good chance for success, we'd learn a lot from the attempt, and, if successful it would be a story of triumph against great odds which would resonate around the world.



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LobowolfXXX
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If I were the astronaut, I'd want the rescue attempt to be made.

If I were making the decision from earth, I wouldn't authorize a rescue mission.

The ending is just a beginner.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Sep 29, 2015, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 29, 2015, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 29, 2015, Salguod Nairb wrote:
I don't know the actual percentage but for sake of argument; if there was only a 30% chance of rescue success would you hold to your original answer?

I'm only trying to reiterate that it isn't as simple as picking you up from the airport. Not trying to change your mind.


That makes it tougher but at those odds my answer stands, if volunteers could be found.

There is still a reasonably good chance for success, we'd learn a lot from the attempt, and, if successful it would be a story of triumph against great odds which would resonate around the world.



The lover of life's not a sinner.


Yeah, but nobody bleeds for the dancer.

And that's part of the problem
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Fool, fool, fool.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
TonyB2009
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No government would risk the political fallout of NOT mounting a rescue mission, even a fruitless and hopeless one.

Remember when Franklin disappeared in the quest for the North West Passage? The British Empire sent at least twenty rescue expeditions. Each one cost the equivalent of multiple millions. There's your precedent.
Salguod Nairb
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Not looking for a precedent, just simply what you would do in that situation. Smile
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landmark
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Quote:
Think back to the Moon landings. They didn't have immediate rescue plans available then but they did provide addition resources for the astronauts to use if something went wrong.

I don't remember the exact amount of time, but I believe it takes months for a ship/rocket to reach Mars for Earth and that is when the two planets are at their closest. I'm sure someone on here knows the exact amount of time.


Eight months, one way, at the best of times--which can take two years to reach.

When I interviewed Buzz Aldrin he said that most missions into space seek triple redundancy in all critical systems. But even given that, there were several times just on his moon flight alone, when it was almost unrecoverable for them. There are so many variables, so many unknowns.

Aldrin is promoting a different scenario to Mars than the present NASA one; he envisions a permanent cycler craft from Earth to Phobos, one of Mars' moons. Astronauts would shuttle to the cycler, then shuttle back down to Mars from Phobos. Lots of fuel saved that way. But--he strongly believes that the first astronauts to Mars should stay there to set up for the next visitors. He frankly admits that at present, no US President would ever agree to such a thing, though he thinks there are astronauts who would volunteer. He sees it as part of his personal mission to spread the word about one-way trips to Mars, encouraging future Presidents to consider such a plan (for astronauts, not Presidents!).

Is he crazy? I don't think so. He's probably the most qualified man in the world when it comes to considering how to rendezvous spacecraft.

So as an astronaut, you would know that if something screws up, you have put your life on the line. This is clear. You don't want it to happen, but you're not going to be surprised. Nixon's speechwriters had prepared a speech for him to read in the event that the moon landing went awry and we lost the astronauts. You can read it in one of Aldrin's books. I don't think the public,once they accepted the concept of a one way mission to Mars would expect a rescue mission. Everyone would go into it holding their breath, but knowing the risks.
R.S.
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Does anyone else find it oddly coincidental that NASA makes this huge announcement about water on Mars within days of the movie opening? Smile

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Salguod Nairb
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No.
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balducci
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I read the book, quite enjoyed it. It was a real page turner.

And

http://news.yahoo.com/mars-announcement-......452.html

Did NASA time its Mars announcement to coincide with the film's release?

"No, the timing was dictated by the publication of the Nature Geoscience article, which was released today," Laurie Cantillo, a NASA spokeswoman, told Yahoo News.

It would be a bit hard to imagine the space agency sitting on major Mars news in order for it to collide with a Hollywood movie. After all, it took "multiple spacecraft over several years to solve this mystery," Michael Meyer, lead scientist for NASA Mars Exploration program, said at Monday's press conference in Washington.
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balducci
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Of course, the timing of the publication of the Nature Geoscience article notwithstanding, certain folks remain unconvinced and think it has to have been a conspiracy instead:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/......n-movie/

Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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