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Dannydoyle
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Yep it is a good thing he told his daughter to take all her money out.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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Stock is still way down from May .. My daughter has saved plenty of money already and it is invested at a much better rate than the negative one you've suggested! Smile
BTW .. This is the retirement thread... Quit trolling.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Oct 29, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Stock is still way down from May ..

Only 2.7%: a hiccough. Stop riding this mouse as if it were an elephant.

Still way up since September 28: 11.1%. That's four times as much as your "way down". Four times! You should be ecstatic.

Quote:
On Oct 29, 2015, Slim King wrote:
BTW .. This is the retirement thread... Quit trolling.

You're the one who has tied the performance of 401(k) accounts to the DJIA.

401(k) accounts are retirement accounts.

You're the one who invited this.
Dannydoyle
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I am only following your lead Slim. You decided somehow the very short term investment of the DJA was the be all and end all. I simply am using your alleged "logic".

I would love to be in the room when your daughter sees all the money your advice ha cost her in 20 years.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quoth the article:

"Jobs in fields like manufacturing and construction, which were historically filled by people without college degrees, have been evaporating quickly over the past 15 years. [As noted previously] less-educated people are more likely to be unemployed and to make less, so they struggle to afford things like therapy, gym memberships, and recreation that isn't drugs. Without jobs, they may lack the social networks and sense of purpose that have shown to reduce mortality. Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to live as they're accustomed to, even if they work until they're 65. All of this is crashing down on Boomers, who were raised on the promise of the American Dream."

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archiv....../413971/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
..."Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to live as they're accustomed to, even if they work until they're 65."...



Translation. Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to retire with the same income that they have while working.

It would be 'nice' to be able to maintain the same income in retirement that you had while working but is that something that we should expect everyone to have?
balducci
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
..."Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to live as they're accustomed to, even if they work until they're 65."...



Translation. Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to retire with the same income that they have while working.

Your so-called translation is inaccurate. You do NOT need the same level of income to maintain the SAME level of comfort after retiring. Experts usually say you require 70%-80% of your pre-retirement income to maintain the SAME level of lifestyle. Because once you stop working, all sorts of expenses (like travel to and from work, etc.) end.

Now if you want to travel more or eat out more after retiring, that is something else again.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
...
Your so-called translation is inaccurate. You do NOT need the same level of income to maintain the SAME level of comfort after retiring. Experts usually say you require 70%-80% of your pre-retirement income to maintain the SAME level of lifestyle. ...


Well, you got one thing right. My translation was inaccurate.

It's actually very subjective. You may need more money, you may need less, you may need the same amount. It varies based on everyone's personal situation.
(I've never heard of transportation to work costing someone 20-30% of their income. Man, they gotta find a job closer to home!)

http://www.smart401k.com/Content/retail/......nt-ratio

Example 1: He will likely need to replace 100% or more of his pre-retirement income in order to meet his expected retirement lifestyle."
Example 2: In this situation, they likely need a smaller percentage of their pre-retirement income and can most likely use a replacement ratio of 70% or less.
Example 3: Jennifer and Greg will likely need to use a higher replacement ratio because they don’t earn as much in their pre-retirement years, and they will have substantial costs related to the care of their parents.
Dannydoyle
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I can't imagine transportation costing that much but OK.

Thing is you have all the time not at work to account for. That is what usually makes people need more.

Why retire and sit home watching Judge Judy? You want to do the things you didn't have time for when you were working. Otherwise keep working.

Plus costs go up on everything, and you need more as people are living longer now. It costs more just to be even so starting with 30% less can put you 40% behind in a hurry. I am sure balducci was getting to pointing out the logical flaws as he always does.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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You are funny (if increasingly tiresome) about this pointing out logical flaws thing, Danny.

IMO you guys are right so far as a decent enjoyable life after retirement costing EVEN MORE than life before retirement. But I think you both missed the point.

This only makes the situation described in the article even worse!

"Nearly half of Americans in their 40s and 50s don't have enough money saved for retirement to live as they're accustomed to, even if they work until they're 65."

So the reality of the situation is even WORSE than that. Probably well over half of Americans don't have enough money saved to live as they're accustomed to or would want to. No wonder so many "Middle-Aged White Americans Are Dying of Despair".
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, rockwall wrote:

I've never heard of transportation to work costing someone 20-30% of their income.

Neither have I. It was one example, followed by an etc. I didn't think I had to spell the etc. out to you so explicitly. Other costs would include things like business dress, licensing fees, union dues, gifts for co-workers, business lunches out, malpractice insurance, business vehicle, child care, and so forth. Obviously specifics would differ by job and by person.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:

I am sure balducci was getting to pointing out the logical flaws as he always does.

If it bugs you so much, stop making them. LOL.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
You are funny (if increasingly tiresome) about this pointing out logical flaws thing, Danny.


Yea I can see where being called on hypocrisy would be tiresome.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.


I believe those who knew life prior to the credit card or were raised by those who did see things differently. The idea of "have now pay later" becomes quite seductive and then destructive.

It is basically what you are saying.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
...
So the reality of the situation is even WORSE than that. Probably well over half of Americans don't have enough money saved to live as they're accustomed to or would want to. No wonder so many "Middle-Aged White Americans Are Dying of Despair".


Oh, I have no doubt that the percentage of people who don't have enough money to live like they would 'want' to is quite high. They don't even need to retire to be in that group! I just don't think that's ever been the promise.
landmark
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.


Apples and oranges. Spending power of workers who reached their peak earning years in 2015 vs. 1985? Pensions of same? GI Bill? Cost of higher education? Medical Costs? Percentage of salary spent on housing? Return on standard investments? It's remarkably easier to save when there is more to save.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.


Apples and oranges. Spending power of workers who reached their peak earning years in 2015 vs. 1985? Pensions of same? GI Bill? Cost of higher education? Medical Costs? Percentage of salary spent on housing? Return on standard investments? It's remarkably easier to save when there is more to save.


Apples and apples. It's a lot easier to spend recreationally when there is more to spend, but that doesn't stop people from having the deluxe cable package, the latest iPhone, restaurant dinners five nights a week...
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.


Apples and oranges. Spending power of workers who reached their peak earning years in 2015 vs. 1985? Pensions of same? GI Bill? Cost of higher education? Medical Costs? Percentage of salary spent on housing? Return on standard investments? It's remarkably easier to save when there is more to save.


It's not apples and oranges at all. You're right that it's remarkably easier to save when there is more to save. That was Lobo's point. One reason people used to have much more to save was because they spent much less on discretionary items, they ate at home more, (enormously less expensive than eating out all the time), etc. etc. As an example, my daughter's husband lost his job over a year ago and now they live only on what she makes. She commented to me just the other day how she can hardly understand where all the money went when they had two incomes. She understands now that they spent an enormous amount of money on discretionary items that she realizes now weren't all that necessary.

But you're also right. Incomes have stagnated, even dropped.
landmark
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In my experience, there's a marked difference between the saving and spending habits of Americans in their 40s and 50s and those in their 70s and older, and it's not unrelated. Those who lived through the Great Depression or were raised by people who did seem to me to be far more inclined to live within or beneath their means - saving up and doing without. Those for whom it was just a story spend much more on discretionary items - toys, eating out, expensive clothes, etc. I'm sure there's quite a variety of factors at play, but it sure seems to me like the percentage of ants has declined and the percentage of grasshoppers has grown.


Apples and oranges. Spending power of workers who reached their peak earning years in 2015 vs. 1985? Pensions of same? GI Bill? Cost of higher education? Medical Costs? Percentage of salary spent on housing? Return on standard investments? It's remarkably easier to save when there is more to save.


Apples and apples. It's a lot easier to spend recreationally when there is more to spend, but that doesn't stop people from having the deluxe cable package, the latest iPhone, restaurant dinners five nights a week...


You've not addressed the points I've made about housing, medical care, education, pension plans, interest rates, all non-discretionary. The point (really anecdotes) that you reference have been around since before 1985 with old people complaining about the spendthrift ways of the younger generation. But the hard evidence is this: despite large rises in productivity, workers are not living as well as they were even thirty years ago.
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