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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Calling James Randi (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

rockwall
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Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......ret.html

"A five-year-old savant who is apparently displaying signs of telepathy is being studied by scientists after his mother posted videos online showing him reciting random numbers 'written in secret'.

Ramses Sanguino - who is already learning seven languages and solving complex mathematical equations - was filmed seemingly demonstrating telepathy at his home in Los Angeles, California.

In the footage, the youngster, who has a 'high functioning' form of autism, correctly recounts the value and suits of playing cards, as well as numbers that were reportedly penned out of sight."
mastermindreader
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Why not call in some reputable researchers instead?
rockwall
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Because in regards to her claims, Randi is probably more reputable than most and knows more about the tricks used to promote these types of claims than most.

"Reputable" researchers are as easily fooled as everyone else. Ask Banachek. (And yes, I realize I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.)
balducci
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Here is the kid "solving complex mathematical equations":

http://www.gcabc.ca/gifted-kids/toddler-......-ramses/
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balducci
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Here is the good doctor:

http://dianehennacypowell.com/press-kit/formal-bio/

She is already known to the skeptics community:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23868

Small excerpt:

Dr. Diane Powell: Yes. The first one happened when I was a teenager. A friend of mine traveled in the circus during the summer and invited me over to his house because the magician that he traveled with was there. He had talked very highly about him. His name was Jay Michelle and he did Houdini-like tricks, but when I met him he wanted to show me some other things that he could do. He had me stand across the room from him, which was about maybe 15 feet away. There was a bookshelf behind me with around 1,000 books. He said, "Pick any book out. Open it up to any page and as you're reading it I'll read it to you."

And he did just that... for several books and several pages. It blew my mind. When I asked him about it he said, "Oh, that’s just a magic trick. It’s just magic."

I said, "Okay, okay. I guess it's just magic."

I asked my father about it and he said, "Well, there is this controversial topic called telepathy and that's what it sounds like to me."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:

Not terribly surprising that the Daily Mail is reporting this as news (or that Drudge is linking to the story today). The Mail has a reputation as being somewhat anti science / pro pseudo-science. Some should be as critical of its pseudo-scientific denialist reporting on the topic of climate change.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
lynnef
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I loved the recent documetary film about Randi (which also features Banachek). As we might recall, Uri Geller once fooled several scientists (on numerous occasions)! As far as "reputable researchers" ... James Randi has those as well. Savants can do amazing things with numbers, but telepathy is a different creature. I can imagine that one could repeat a number written out of sight by listening to the number of pencil scratches (much like esp cards)... but telepathy? no... but I am interested in how he does it! Lynn
mastermindreader
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On Nov 5, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Because in regards to her claims, Randi is probably more reputable than most and knows more about the tricks used to promote these types of claims than most.

"Reputable" researchers are as easily fooled as everyone else. Ask Banachek. (And yes, I realize I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.)


The fact is that Randi has never scientifically "investigated" anything since the infamous sTarbaby scandal when CSICOP intentionally falsified a

And altered date to disprove the so-called "Mars effect."

Operating from the false assumption that the Mars effect would support an astrology hypothesis, CSICOP decided that its premise (that talented athletes are, more often than non-athletes, born with Mars in a certain house of the Zodiac) had to be false. The problem was that when they replicated the experiment they CONFIRMED the effect. But then they refused to publish their results and, instead, fabricated their own contradictory evidence. The irony was that after the man who discovered the Mars effect committed suicide, it was subsequently proven that he was correct, but the reason was perfectly mundane and had nothing to do with astrology. (It was actually due to the fact that the most successful athletes were actually born at a time of the year that effected when they would be later admitted to school, and their respective ages when compared to other students.)

But Randi and the others made an a priori decision that the effect COULDN'T be possible and that, therefore, the original research HAD to be wrong.

See astronomer Dennis Rawlins lengthy in depth history of the scandal at: http://cura.free.fr/xv/14starbb.html

It was sTarbaby that directly led to Marcello Truzzi, founding editor of "The Zetetic" (the original publication of CSICOP) resigning, along with others, from CSICOP and later coining the term "pseudoskepticism" to describe their mindset.

And, no, the reputable researchers I'm referring to are NOT as easily fooled as anyone else. Even arch skeptic Ray Hyman has conceded that Jessica Utts' remote viewing protocols were without flaw and effectively eliminated cheating.

The world renowned UK parapsychologist, Dr. Susan Blackmore, unlike Randi,would be uniquely qualified to carry out tests on the child savant if she were so inclined. She is an admitted skeptic but nonetheless has an open mind and would develop a solid experimental protocol. Also note that she was a distinguished fellow at CSICOP herself, although she had nothing whatsoever to do with the sTarbaby incident. In fact, in 1991, she was awarded the CSICOP Distinguished Skeptic Award.

I first met her in the early 80's when I was part of a panel of mentalists at Fairleigh Dickinson University explaining to members of the Parapsychological Association how to best work with mentalists and magicians in developing fraud proof test protocols.

SHE is one of those I meant when I referred to reputable researchers.

You can read about her at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Blackmore
rockwall
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You guys are taking this a whole lot more seriously than I meant it to be. I thought it a funny little article with the title to the topic being a bit of a joke. Oh well. Pontificate on.
rockwall
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On Nov 5, 2015, lynnef wrote:
I loved the recent documetary film about Randi (which also features Banachek). As we might recall, Uri Geller once fooled several scientists (on numerous occasions)! As far as "reputable researchers" ... James Randi has those as well. Savants can do amazing things with numbers, but telepathy is a different creature. I can imagine that one could repeat a number written out of sight by listening to the number of pencil scratches (much like esp cards)... but telepathy? no... but I am interested in how he does it! Lynn


Loved it too!
Slim King
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I think it's already down to 99 cents somewhere .. I'm going to get it cheap.. Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
magicfish
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2015, rockwall wrote:
Because in regards to her claims, Randi is probably more reputable than most and knows more about the tricks used to promote these types of claims than most.

"Reputable" researchers are as easily fooled as everyone else. Ask Banachek. (And yes, I realize I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.)

I couldn't agree more. Randi is an authority.
Slim King
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BOB IS 100% CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS......

The fact is that Randi has never scientifically "investigated" anything since the infamous sTarbaby scandal when CSICOP intentionally falsified a

And altered date to disprove the so-called "Mars effect."
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
lynnef
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I don't think Randi is a "scientist"by profession; but he is a magician. I noticed in the documentary film of him that he couldn't keep his hands off a deck of cards at one point. At any rate, I also don't think the 5 year old is "cheating". Recalling numbers "penned out of sight" (eg if the person writing on the pad is in front of you ... ie you can't see the numbers written but you can watch the person's hands OR listening for the number of pencil strokes) can certainly be explained without supernatural powers. However, it might be possible that the savant is much better than non-savants at this! ps. There's also a lot we don't know about the savant mind nor the autistic mind (see the story of Temple Grandin). As Temple herself says, "we're different but not less." Lynn
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