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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Rhonda Rousey vs Holly Holms........WOW!!! (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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lunatik
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On Nov 17, 2015, magicfish wrote:
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On Nov 17, 2015, lunatik wrote:
She would have recovered if a kick didn't follow up. If the fight ended right then and there and the bell rung, Ronda would have still been standing, not "knocked out".

I disagree.


I guess I've never seen someone who was knocked out just walking around. Can a person who's knocked out talk is my next question. Or would they unconscious and unable to?
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
lunatik
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On Nov 17, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Ronda was effectively out of it after the punch. Had Holly not followed up with a kick she would have followed up with a punch, which would have been even more decisive (punches generally produce more spectacular knockouts).

The rematch should be epic, because we know how good Holly is, but we don't know how much Ronda can raise her game. I wouldn't bet against her.

And of course, we have Conor McGregor to look forward to. The man who didn't come to take part, but to take over. Got to love that level of arrogance, especially when he has always been able to back it up.


I hope Conor has the same thing coming to him. He just needs a little bit of humility to be taught imo
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
Dannydoyle
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Knocked "out" is what is being disputed. I guess in a pure technical sense of the weird she was not "out" but the bulb was dim!

For all intents and purposes she was indeed out though many reflexes and defence mechanisms kicked in and she was not technically "out ". In the end everyone is saying exactly the same thing. This place is so confrontational that even when people agree they argue.
Danny Doyle
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TonyB2009
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On Nov 18, 2015, lunatik wrote:
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On Nov 17, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Ronda was effectively out of it after the punch. Had Holly not followed up with a kick she would have followed up with a punch, which would have been even more decisive (punches generally produce more spectacular knockouts).

The rematch should be epic, because we know how good Holly is, but we don't know how much Ronda can raise her game. I wouldn't bet against her.

And of course, we have Conor McGregor to look forward to. The man who didn't come to take part, but to take over. Got to love that level of arrogance, especially when he has always been able to back it up.


I hope Conor has the same thing coming to him. He just needs a little bit of humility to be taught imo

Conor got hammered in his last fight, against Chad Mendes. He took a terrible pounding, and still managed to score the knock-out. First time he had been in real trouble, and he responded like a champion. He is made of the right stuff, and will beat Aldo.
Dannydoyle
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Maybe. But lets not get ahead with decrees of true champion and such. He is a good fighter. This can not be questioned.

He is probably good for the sport as well. A guy with just enough arrogance to be disliked, but respected. Enough not to be hated universally. The sport needs a likeable sort of bad boy and he does qualify.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicfish
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On Nov 18, 2015, lunatik wrote:
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On Nov 17, 2015, magicfish wrote:
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On Nov 17, 2015, lunatik wrote:
She would have recovered if a kick didn't follow up. If the fight ended right then and there and the bell rung, Ronda would have still been standing, not "knocked out".

I disagree.


I guess I've never seen someone who was knocked out just walking around. Can a person who's knocked out talk is my next question. Or would they unconscious and unable to?

Have you ever been knocked out?
lunatik
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OMG, I can't believe that you have no clue as to what being "knocked out" is. I'd love to argue with you some more but I need to get some sleep. Maybe I'm not sleeping, I'm just resting my eye lids.....8 hrs at a time....
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
TonyB2009
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Lunatik, of course you can get knocked out and still be on your feet. In boxing it is the job of a good referee to jump in and stop a fight at that stage, rather than let a stationary, immobile and unprotected fighter take a devastating punch that could have life-changing consequences.

Rousey was out. She was standing immobile, making no attempt to defend herself. Luckily she got kicked rather than punched, or she could have been seriously injured.
magicfish
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Thanks, Tony, well said.
Lunatik: Unfortunately, I know all too well what it means to be knocked out.
Slim King
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My father is 93. He looks back and says that he believes most of the big fights were fixed ... I believe him!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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Proof?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
lunatik
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On Nov 19, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Lunatik, of course you can get knocked out and still be on your feet. In boxing it is the job of a good referee to jump in and stop a fight at that stage, rather than let a stationary, immobile and unprotected fighter take a devastating punch that could have life-changing consequences.

Rousey was out. She was standing immobile, making no attempt to defend herself. Luckily she got kicked rather than punched, or she could have been seriously injured.


Imo, being knocked out means unconscious. Maybe that's where we differ in definition.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
seadog93
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I believe I'm right in saying that a "knock out" means you are unconscious and a TKO (technical knockout - still a knockout) means you're not technically on the floor unconscious, but unaware and not able to defend yourself intelligently. The following is from "MMA rules for dummies:"

Quote:
Technical knockout (TKO). A technical knockout, when a fight is ended by the referee, doctor, or fighter’s corner, can be called in a few ways. The referee can call one when a fighter is no longer defending himself, usually due to an effective attack by his opponent.

A doctor can also call a TKO if it’s clear that continuing the fight could be dangerous. And finally, a fighter’s corner can throw in a towel to admit defeat, resulting in a TKO.



Tony,
why is a punch more dangerous than a kick?
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

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TonyB2009
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Lunatik, where is it written down that you need to be lying down to be unconscious? Rousey was not conscious in any real sense after the first punch.

Seadog93, a kick to the midsection is very powerful. But a head kick is stretching it. The leg is at full extension, and at a point where it doesn't carry nearly the same power. Kicks that high don't have the impact of a punch that comes straight out, and connects with maximum power.
Dannydoyle
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On Nov 20, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Lunatik, where is it written down that you need to be lying down to be unconscious? Rousey was not conscious in any real sense after the first punch.

Seadog93, a kick to the midsection is very powerful. But a head kick is stretching it. The leg is at full extension, and at a point where it doesn't carry nearly the same power. Kicks that high don't have the impact of a punch that comes straight out, and connects with maximum power.


True but it has more to do with the base. True power starts at the base. With one leg to denier said kick it is a far weaker base and not as powerful.

Basic physics.
Danny Doyle
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seadog93
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On Nov 20, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On Nov 20, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Seadog93, a kick to the midsection is very powerful. But a head kick is stretching it. The leg is at full extension, and at a point where it doesn't carry nearly the same power. Kicks that high don't have the impact of a punch that comes straight out, and connects with maximum power.


True but it has more to do with the base. True power starts at the base. With one leg to denier said kick it is a far weaker base and not as powerful.

Basic physics.


The height thing makes sense to me; at least theoretically, I don't have anywhere near the flexibility to even pretend to play around with it.

The base thing I'm not so sure about.
It could be that I'm misunderstanding, but I don't think anyone can deny the power of a low thai kick to the thigh or side kick to the gut. I also am no expert puncher, but it seems to me that most power generated in my (admittedly weak) punches comes from just one foot. The Jack Dempsey style knock out jab only has one foot on the ground at contact.

The way Bas Rutten describes his kicking style the power comes from the dropping your weight and simultaneously loading up the hips. Are you saying that he can punch harder than the kicks below? Again, apologies if I am misunderstanding what you said, this is a very interesting topic to me,.

Bast Rutten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgrHiWlpRGc

Also Joe Rogan demonstrating side and spin kicks. The power is being used differently, but still comes from the turning of the powerful hip muscles and, in the case, the solid structure of the straight-line of the body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4QPprcgtlw
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
magicfish
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On Nov 20, 2015, lunatik wrote:
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On Nov 19, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Lunatik, of course you can get knocked out and still be on your feet. In boxing it is the job of a good referee to jump in and stop a fight at that stage, rather than let a stationary, immobile and unprotected fighter take a devastating punch that could have life-changing consequences.

Rousey was out. She was standing immobile, making no attempt to defend herself. Luckily she got kicked rather than punched, or she could have been seriously injured.


Imo, being knocked out means unconscious. Maybe that's where we differ in definition.

Do you not know that one can be unconcious while still standing?
Dannydoyle
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On Nov 20, 2015, seadog93 wrote:
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On Nov 20, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
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On Nov 20, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Seadog93, a kick to the midsection is very powerful. But a head kick is stretching it. The leg is at full extension, and at a point where it doesn't carry nearly the same power. Kicks that high don't have the impact of a punch that comes straight out, and connects with maximum power.


True but it has more to do with the base. True power starts at the base. With one leg to denier said kick it is a far weaker base and not as powerful.

Basic physics.


The height thing makes sense to me; at least theoretically, I don't have anywhere near the flexibility to even pretend to play around with it.

The base thing I'm not so sure about.
It could be that I'm misunderstanding, but I don't think anyone can deny the power of a low thai kick to the thigh or side kick to the gut. I also am no expert puncher, but it seems to me that most power generated in my (admittedly weak) punches comes from just one foot. The Jack Dempsey style knock out jab only has one foot on the ground at contact.

The way Bas Rutten describes his kicking style the power comes from the dropping your weight and simultaneously loading up the hips. Are you saying that he can punch harder than the kicks below? Again, apologies if I am misunderstanding what you said, this is a very interesting topic to me,.

Bast Rutten:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgrHiWlpRGc

Also Joe Rogan demonstrating side and spin kicks. The power is being used differently, but still comes from the turning of the powerful hip muscles and, in the case, the solid structure of the straight-line of the body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4QPprcgtlw


Study Bruce Lee and his one inch punch.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
lunatik
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On Nov 20, 2015, magicfish wrote:
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On Nov 20, 2015, lunatik wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 19, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Lunatik, of course you can get knocked out and still be on your feet. In boxing it is the job of a good referee to jump in and stop a fight at that stage, rather than let a stationary, immobile and unprotected fighter take a devastating punch that could have life-changing consequences.

Rousey was out. She was standing immobile, making no attempt to defend herself. Luckily she got kicked rather than punched, or she could have been seriously injured.


Imo, being knocked out means unconscious. Maybe that's where we differ in definition.

Do you not know that one can be unconcious while still standing?


That wasn't the case with Ronda

A kick to the head can do a lot more damage than a punch. Ones leg is A LOT stronger than an arm in most cases.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
seadog93
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On Nov 20, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:


Study Bruce Lee and his one inch punch.


That doesn't really help me, although there may be a lot that you're assuming I know or would see. If the base that you're talking about is basic physics then a simple explanation should work.

I have James W. Demille's (one of the original students of Bruce Lee) on the one one inch punch.
It's interesting that while he explains Bruce Lee's stance for the one inch punch, he explains why his one base is much different. It seems that most of the work on the one-inch punch comes from coordinating the subtle dropping of the weight and snap of the wrist.

It's also a form of fajing, common in internal martial arts. The explanations on fajing generally have more to do with generating waves of force through the body to deliver massive amounts of damage in distances of inches or less.

Still, that's all one style of striking.
What aspect of it is universal to all forms of generating power, punching and kicking?
What about Bas Rutten's kick? I'm still unsure if you think that his punches would be more powerful.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
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