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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Derren Brown "Tractor" Effect (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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david_a_whitehead
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Train a thot (as shrink stated above) uses pre-show work, and thus you may be along the right lines. It is worth looking up. You can find it in Earle's book, Menage A Trois and reprinted in M.I.N.D.
Harry H
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It is worth repeating I saw him do an identical and also similar effect on two live chat shows in the UK (Richard and Judy and Born Sloppy for UK trivia fans!)as well as a blinding map mind reading effect. I just wonder if there was pre-show.

I quote Derren,"We haven't set anything up beforehand, you haven't written anything down previously". BTW they agreed!
And Bob's your mother's brother, you'd be right!
Colin
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Can you please elaborate on the 'Map Mind Reading Effect'? I don't remember seeing this.

Best Wishes,

Colin
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Harry H
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Think I posted this before, but anyway, a large map of London was laid out on table. Presenter thinks of a place, Derren, after much waffling, puts presenter's hand onto place! It was Baker Street: a la Sherlock Holmes. That's it in a nutshell!
Colin
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Ahh that old chestnut.

The way I have done the 'Tractor Effect' in the past is to talk with someone before the show, draw something and put it in an envelope. I then give them the envelope and I then never see it again till I am performing this effect.

This person is then asked to verify that they have had the envelope since I said 'Hi, will you help me later to them'. Also that they saw me draw something and put it in the envelope and that, however, they didn't see what the drawing was. I didn't tell them what was in the envelope, they haven't looked (it is totally sealed anyway) and they haven't told me any ideas they may have had to what it is.

The effect from there is similar to Mr Brown's, although slightly different presentation. This way it just adds another layer of impossibility, even for the person involved.

Best Wishes,

Colin
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Jonathan
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The fact that he said they had arranged nothing previously and he hadn't written anything down leads me to believe that there was preshow work done. Sounds awfully similar to Andy Nyman's lecture about the preshow work done in deep red prediction.

When I saw the effect I figured there was preshow work with the guy and a lot of double-talk where he is involved in a different trick than the rest of the audience. The only thing that confused me was the interview with the guy afterwards. What I wonder is what if, in that interview, he is actually reacting to a different question than we think he is. I believe probably a reaction to a trick done previously during the preshow work.

Most likely there are subtle differences between the TV version and the live version to take more advantage of the medium.

I need to watch it again and see if I can figure out what is non-verbal (since the guy is blindfolded...yet another clue pointing to this method). I'm pretty sure he didn't realize Derren was showing the drawing to everyone. I'll check and see.

Jonathan Grant
Sariel
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Why would you want to "dissect" the method Derren is using? Geesh...if he wanted more people to use it he would have published it.
His method is exactly that...HIS method. Not anybody else's.
Anyway...I don't know about the rest of you but I really wouldn't want anyone to say to me "I've seen a guy on tv doing that"

Even then, if you really want to do a similar effect, you can do a bit of pre-show with a CT or impression device...you don't need to imagine word for word what Derren asked before the show to that guy. Just develop your own stuff, don't be so dependent on the material of others.
Rob
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It's a standard drawing duplication using pre-show work with two separate end results: the subject believes that Derren has successfully duplicated the drawing that he himself did earlier and the audience witness the effect as described above. At the end the producer asks "Why did you think of a tractor?" and the reply is of course along the lines of "I don't know - it just came to my head". The television audience assumes the question means "Why did you think of a tractor when you were sat in the chair blindfolded?" rather than "Why did you think of a tractor earlier on?"
Harry H
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Why is this any different to the effects Luke jermay did at Blackpool,why must it be pre show.Ok so the spec didn't draw anything but that aside,could it not be psch restriction as Luke said regards his effect.
enriqueenriquez
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Derren Brown is by all means a great performer. He reframes the old and very same methods that we all know and/or use in a way that is more believable to today’s audiences, and people buy it. That’s really interesting. It’s great in fact. He is not the only one using that framing, but he is probably the most easy to notice due to the fact that he works on TV.

Understanding why is he succesful is a great exercise. Again, the guy is a great entertainer.

But one of the things I found most interesting about DB, is how easily he has sold this new framing, not only to the public, but to his fellows mentalists/magicians.

Applauding a new presentation approach makes sense. Believing it is a little bit different.

Just my opinion.
nimrod
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Very much true.
pkmagic
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Thanks for your replies one and all.

I agree that Derren is most excellent, and I do not wish to duplicate his work at all.
I find this whole area of illusion immensely fascinating.

I am aware of Psychological Subleties ( Banachek ),
but can anyone suggest any other resources?

p.s.
Met Derren after his live show last year, and he's quite a funny chappie.
Derren, if you're reading this, excellent work. You won't rememnber me.
Jonathan
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What makes you think we are dissecting it so we can copy it? We are mentalists and this is our passion, a situation like this is very enjoyable and also very educational. We can learn a lot by dissecting great performances.

I watched the performance again and you are right, Derren is pretty open about what he's doing and the person blindfolded wouldn't have much different of a perception than the audience. Also he actually has the picture in his hand I believe.

One key I noticed was that in this case he said nothing about not writing anything down. Since he says this in his live routine I think it's a clue. That would make the end interview plausable (as opposed to the Andy Nyman method or one similar).

I wonder if he said to the person in preshow to draw what he thinks the audience will be thinking of or maybe what he thinks is drawn in the envelope (which is switched later). Of course this wouldn't work if he confirms nothing has been written down (like he does in his stage show) but it will allow for a great interview afterwards.

The line "before he even approached me" I think gives a clue that he's referring to preshow work. Otherwise I think he would say "before he chose me" or something like that.

What I'm curious about is how he doesn't get suspicious or confused by how Derren is presenting the effect. Another clue is that Derren tells the audience to react so he will know that he's correct. Other than that no one really looks all that impressed.

Jonathan Grant
Scott Xavier
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I'm thinking of marketing a new product.
It's 100% impromptu. I carry it with me every day and is quite ordinary. BUT, you could perform the same miracle stated.
enriqueenriquez
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It’s a tractor? Smile
Colin
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Does anyone else feel that this post has just turned into discussing another performers secrets?

Sorry but how would you like it if your original ideas were being released over the internet for everyone to read? Although it might not be original to Derren, it is to someone else, and without them allowing it to be openly discussed, I think this topic is very unfair on them, and the people who have paid to learn it.

Best Wishes,
Colin
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Karswell
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I take your point and I find it strange how a TV performance seems to change people's perspectives in many ways. One is that is the material seems to be considered 'in the public domain'.
But I don't think anyone has said much other than its possibly pre-show. Speculation.
Anyone who has paid for only *that* needs a refund IMHO.

Nick.
pcamel
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Just saw the trick and can't get over how clean it "looks." If it really is that clean in person, I don't know, but that is the way mentalism should look. That is what I love about it. Not how he does it, but how it looks. There is very little possibility of switches or false maneuvers in the mind of anyone who saw it. Preshow work as an explanation is slowly starting to be the cliche "it must be done with mirrors" kind of explanation for anything that is mindblowing. it could have been ps work, but the point is it's very clean.
shrink
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The only original element as I see it is the presentation idea of blindfolding the volunteer. Other than that, this is an effect I have used for at least 10 years.
Fon
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Another great twist on this effect is the layout of the furniture behind the blindfolded person.

Look carefully, you will see it's in the shape of a tractor.

Fantastic misdirection.

Fon
Always thinking..........?
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