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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts 
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Does anyone have any tips for me on how to avoid tendonitis resulting from coin practice? I've recently developed tendonitis in my elbow (lateral epicondyle) that I'm fairly sure is being caused by repetitive practice on a few specific moves. This usually means a person is either doing something too much, or doing it with too much tension in the gripping, or both.
Since I've been practicing daily for just over a year, and haven't had this problem until the past couple of weeks, I think I can narrow it down to two moves - 1. rolling the coin down and back up the knuckles, and 2. a specific ROV vanish used by a lot of Japanese coin magicians. I first learned it from Zee. Then I got the Takuma Ukawa DVD "Retention of Vision" where he really breaks the move down from a bunch of angles. I love this particular version of the ROV vanish and am determined to learn to do it. In any case, I was hoping to find out if anyone else has ever had a tendonitis problem from coin practice, and if so, what they did to prevent it. I know that resting and stretching the tendons is a good way to recover once the pain is there. Thoughts? Cheers! Ken |
SmileAndNod Veteran user 316 Posts
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I haven't had any elbow pain, but I do get a lot of hand and wrist pain. I don't know what to tell you. I try to ice at times and try to lay off certain moves if they seem to be causing me too much pain, but often I'll look down to realize I'm practicing a coin sleight over and over again without noticing it.
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts
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Yeah - I definitely do a lot of unconscious practicing while watching TV etc. Good point. I can maybe try to pay more attention to that at least. Thanks!
Ken |
Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts
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Hi Ken,
Tennis Elbow or Lateral Epicondylitis is usually a chronic condition from repetitive stress. Repeated forceful supination (turning the right wrist and arm clockwise) and forceful extension (bending the wrist toward yourself) puts a lot of stress on the lateral collateral ligament and the common extensor tendon along the outer side (lateral) of the elbow. Squeezing your hand in a fist also stresses it. Coin sleights normally should not cause that problem unless you are squeezing the coin very tightly. Are you doing any other forceful repetitive motions such as sawing or filing or sports including boxing, tennis and racquet ball? Diagnosis is usually made by history and physical exam but can be confirmed by MRI. Treatment usually consists of avoiding the stress and NSAIDS. If this does not improve in months, steroid injections may help. Short of surgery, the best treatment IMO (not usually covered by insurance) is Platelet-Rich Plasma injection which uses your own blood to promote healing of the inflamed tendon. Larry |
vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts
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Thank you Larry I have tenis elbow and nothing has helped,me over the years ,,ill ask my doctor about the plasma
vinny |
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts
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Dr. Barnowsky, thanks for the house call. Very informative.
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Mano Inner circle 1028 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 24, 2015, KenRyan wrote: There you go Ken: http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/hOB......lbow.htm http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067E......_o03_s00 That should help you, and I highly suggest you buy The Triggerpoint Therapy Workbook by Clair Davies. Good day everyone. |
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts
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Thanks so much guys! Larry, your insights on this are invaluable. Mano, thanks for the links!
Cheers! Ken |
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts
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BTW, this was absolutely caused by a certain move I've been working on almost obsessively. I've been trying to perfect the Tenkai pinch, and a couple of short routines that rely on it. One in particular - a 3-coins-across routine that uses TP in all 3 transfers. The forceful supination - turning the right wrist and arm clockwise - that you mention is almost certainly me trying to quickly turn my right palm (with TP'd coin) over and open without flashing. During the same period, I was working (again, rather obsessively) on Takuma Ukawa's retention vanish, which also uses those muscles and tendons.
Ken |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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I got tennis elbow once, they gave me an arm band with a lump in it, I put the lump over the point it hurt and cinched it down, no more pain. I was lifting 20 lb. steering wheels the wrong way. I just tried different hand and arm positions until I longer felt the pain. It does take 3 to 6 months for the tendon to heal. Those arm bands can be found at drug stores and Wal-Mart.
KenRyan, are you doing your practicing sitting down. That limits your hand and arm positions, and can cause you to be in awkward positions, try only practicing standing up. |
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts
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Bill. Yeah, I have 2 of those straps and they don't really help me. I've tried them for years. Also, ironically, it was the standing up practicing that I think did me in. that particular coins-across routine with all the TPs is done standing. I'll be paying attention to the sitting down practicing though. Thanks for that tip!
Ken |
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Chuck Finley Regular user 139 Posts
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Tennis elbow from coin sleights that's some serious dedication. I guess it's better to put that dedication into coin magic than into the bullet catch.
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 1, 2016, Chuck Finley wrote: They call it high caliber coin magic. 
I used to do it but something caught my eye.  |
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Chuck Finley Regular user 139 Posts
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It kind of reminded me of that Larry the cable guy joke about taking hustler to court for causing carpal tunnel.
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts
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While practicing coin magic has never given me elbow tendinitis, I've trained with weights for almost 60 years now and have had bouts of this condition. The solution is pretty simple. If you truly believe that a particular sleight or sleights are the problem, stop practicing them until the pain is no longer there. Then, when you feel that you can practice them again, consider devoting less time to those sleights during the practice sessions.
You may feel that long, hard practice sessions give you a sense of dedication, but in reality, they can be trouble waiting to happen. |
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts
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I had tennis elbow a long time ago from playing tennis.
My doctor recommended the arm strap and told me not to aggravate it further and allow it to heal. I played competitive tennis so he gave me a cortisone injection which really helped until I stopped playing for the season. At that point I just rested my arm until it healed. Cortisone is not a good option unless it is necessary. The best option is rest and the strap.
Ihor
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KenRyan Elite user 465 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 1, 2016, Chuck Finley wrote: Well, it's given me the opportunity to practice other things like cards and cups and balls, which I had not done as much with because I thought it would take too much time away from my coin work:-P. I guess I was lucky that I didn't get any tendonitis for a whole year. It was only that last month of over-working (and obviously incorrectly working) a couple of specific moves. BTW, I did get the Flexbar and have been using it daily for 3 days now. It's supposed to take about 6 weeks. I'll report back on its efficacy. Cheers! Ken |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Tennis Elbow From Coin Practice? (0 Likes) | |
Posted: Nov 24, 2015 06:06 am 
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