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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
20538 Posts

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If there are guns there will indeed be accidents, heat of passion and those things. It does not matter how it is obtained things happen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27140 Posts

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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If there are guns there will indeed be accidents, heat of passion and those things. It does not matter how it is obtained things happen.


Agreed. We don't often run people over around here. There are places where running people over seems to be happening more often. And we do try to watch over children near pools.

What can we do to help the tempermental reconsider having tantrums with weapons? The older way was to teach them very early on that their neighbors would not be amused and they too have guns. What could work today?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
S2000magician
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Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3465 Posts

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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Or would you instead prefer, as S2000Magician feels, NOT to have a means to protect yourself because you are not trained well enough so you might accidentally hurt or kill the next victim in line???

I don't feel that way.

Try to keep up.
S2000magician
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Yorba Linda, CA
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Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, Slim King wrote:
100% correct!!!

No, it isn't.
NYCTwister
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267 Posts

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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
If there are guns there will indeed be accidents, heat of passion and those things. It does not matter how it is obtained things happen.


Agreed. We don't often run people over around here. There are places where running people over seems to be happening more often. And we do try to watch over children near pools.

What can we do to help the tempermental reconsider having tantrums with weapons? The older way was to teach them very early on that their neighbors would not be amused and they too have guns. What could work today?


More guns?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Slim King
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Eternal Order
Orlando
17661 Posts

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Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
S2000magician
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Yorba Linda, CA
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!

That's a nice sound bite, but you cannot know that for certain.

You wish that they did, of course, but you cannot presume to know whether they did.

And that's the problem.
The Hermit
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Also, gun shows are state controlled and the fed has no say over how they're run.


Rightly or wrongly, Congress could certainly invoke the Commerce Clause and survive a constitutional challenge to gun show legislation.


They can shut them down tomorrow with an onerous tax as well. However, there is no real loophole problem. Of all guns used in a crime, 2% came from gun shows, but that number contains stolen and borrowed weapons. Gun show laws are kabuki theater by the government, gun control activists or Rothschilds as the case may be. Gun shows are the source of a lot of legitimate tax producing gun sales. They are for hunters and gun sportsmen. They are attended by lots of law enforcement. If I was a criminal, that's the last place I would want to go.

The cities with the highest murder rates/gun deaths have the strictest gun laws. We have proven laws don't stop criminals. The logic on this is self evident. To argue for more law outside of confiscation, is pointless. And, confiscation can never work. Also, I suspect criminals will still get guns as they do in Australia and other countries with strict laws.



What's the self-evident logic?


Criminals don't abide by laws, laws restricting guns have no effect. Making more/stronger laws won't change the criminal from using a gun because they don't see obeying any law as something to do.



Some truth to that, but it's also oversimplified. On the one hand, it's certainly true that people who purchase guns intending to use them to commit robberies, murders, etc. won't balk at gun possession laws, it overlooks that in other situations, there would be an effect. Undoubtedly there have been shootings that were accidents, heat of passion, etc., involving a gun that was legally owned by someone who would not have purchased one had he not been legally permitted to do so.


That's quite a reach and a small part of all gun deaths. The only way to fix that is confiscation. Which is what gun control people want but are too afraid to say.
LobowolfXXX
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La Famiglia
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Actually, the reach was you saying that laws restricting guns have "no" effect.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jonathan Townsend
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Ossining, NY
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That so far we don't have news reports of rogue cop or black shooters in a white suburb... means we have a little more time to have productive dialogue.

To make claim of communication with the dead in pubic argument seems suspiciously like a danger to self and others signal. More on point, how could one distinguish between an inner voice of vanity and an unknown source of malice?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Slim King
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Orlando
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!

That's a nice sound bite, but you cannot know that for certain.

You wish that they did, of course, but you cannot presume to know whether they did.

And that's the problem.

I know it for a FACT ... And so does everyone here Smile
Self preservation demands it ... The only exception would be if they were suicidal, and even then I'm positive they would have fought back to save the ones who weren't.
Let's have a little common sense here!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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Would Gandahi be included in your group?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
S2000magician
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Yorba Linda, CA
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!

That's a nice sound bite, but you cannot know that for certain.

You wish that they did, of course, but you cannot presume to know whether they did.

And that's the problem.

I know it for a FACT ... And so does everyone here Smile

You don't know it for a fact.

Some people would never consider taking a life, even to save their own.

You're projecting here; don't pretend that it's anything more than that.

Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Let's have a little common sense here!!!!!

Yes: let's.

And the common sense is that there are more reasons than suicide that a person would not want to have a gun in the situation under discussion.

You're not omniscient.
LobowolfXXX
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La Famiglia
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!

That's a nice sound bite, but you cannot know that for certain.

You wish that they did, of course, but you cannot presume to know whether they did.

And that's the problem.

I know it for a FACT ... And so does everyone here Smile

You don't know it for a fact.

Some people would never consider taking a life, even to save their own.

You're projecting here; don't pretend that it's anything more than that.

Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Let's have a little common sense here!!!!!

Yes: let's.

And the common sense is that there are more reasons than suicide that a person would not want to have a gun in the situation under discussion.

You're not omniscient.


You're kind of taking an unnecessarily difficult side of the argument. There are numerous people who never used their guns in self-defense, but whose guns accidentally killed their children. Surely the neutral debate judges would agree that THOSE people would rather have not had a gun.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
S2000magician
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Yorba Linda, CA
3465 Posts

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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Every single one of the dead in the California Slaughter wishes they'd had a gun to save their lives and the lives of everyone else!!!!

That's a nice sound bite, but you cannot know that for certain.

You wish that they did, of course, but you cannot presume to know whether they did.

And that's the problem.

I know it for a FACT ... And so does everyone here Smile

You don't know it for a fact.

Some people would never consider taking a life, even to save their own.

You're projecting here; don't pretend that it's anything more than that.

Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Let's have a little common sense here!!!!!

Yes: let's.

And the common sense is that there are more reasons than suicide that a person would not want to have a gun in the situation under discussion.

You're not omniscient.

You're kind of taking an unnecessarily difficult side of the argument. There are numerous people who never used their guns in self-defense, but whose guns accidentally killed their children. Surely the neutral debate judges would agree that THOSE people would rather have not had a gun.

I'd agree if we were talking about people having guns under general circumstances.

However, Slim's claim is that everyone in the specific circumstance of being attacked by people with guns would rather have a gun than not. The argument needs to address the specific circumstance.

And the claim's still wrong. And the claim that he (and everyone here) knows that they'd rather have a gun than not is wronger still.
Slim King
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Orlando
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Would Gandahi be included in your group?

Of course not. He's dead. He wasn't even there. What a stupid question!!!!! Re-read the subject matter ... Was Gandahi in California???

Every single victim(Of sound mind) wished they had a gun!!!!! I guarantee it....

You want to believe that they just wanted to give in, lay down, beg for their lives and then be slaughtered... Go ahead .. It's 100% wrong and you know it. NO ONE WANTS THAT!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
S2000magician
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Yorba Linda, CA
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
NO ONE WANTS THAT!!!!!

Can you prove that?
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
20538 Posts

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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Would Gandahi be included in your group?

Of course not. He's dead. He wasn't even there. What a stupid question!!!!! Re-read the subject matter ... Was Gandahi in California???

Every single victim(Of sound mind) wished they had a gun!!!!! I guarantee it....

You want to believe that they just wanted to give in, lay down, beg for their lives and then be slaughtered... Go ahead .. It's 100% wrong and you know it. NO ONE WANTS THAT!!!!!


So now you can speak for dead people. Do you even read what you troll with?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
EsnRedshirt
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Newark, CA
895 Posts

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And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.

As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
balducci
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Canada
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Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Or we could just get used to the idea that in America nuts with guns are going to regularly massacre innocent people. You know, like if you live in the desert you get used to it being hot. Nothing you can do about it.


That's how we did it with cars and swimming pools.

Cars are a good example. You never see national news reports about the people killed in cars on any given day. As blood splattered schoolrooms and work places and theaters, ect, become more common, the news media will doubtless begin to ignore it the same way it does the daily highway carnage. Mass shootings will become such a boring, everyday occurrence that ratings hungry news outlets will have to move on to something more unique to hold viewers' attention between the commercials. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.



Puhleeze, such nonsense. We all know that in using cars or pools there is risk involved. The risk is quite small and manageable.

My apologies if someone posted this already today (I'm only sampling this thread from time to time, not reading the entire thing):

"For the first time in more than 60 years, firearms and automobiles are killing Americans at an identical rate, according to new mortality data released this month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In 2014, the age-adjusted death rate for both firearms (including homicides, suicides and accidental deaths) and motor vehicle events (car crashes, collisions between cars and pedestrians, etc) stood at 10.3 deaths per 100,000 people. The convergence of the trend lines above is driven primarily by a sharp drop in the rate of motor vehicle fatalities since 1950."

Image


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk......the-u-s/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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