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LobowolfXXX
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However, the vast majority of people who die in cars don't do so intentionally.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.

As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.



Is your position on gun-free zones fact, or an opinion?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.

As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.



Is your position on gun-free zones fact, or an opinion?
I guess I'll have to say opinion, because even if I link to statistics that disprove the majority of shootings happened in gun-free zones, I'll be accused of cherry-picking and using biased data.

You know, I'd never even heard the term "gun-free zone" until a few mass-shootings ago (and the fact I can use the term "a few mass shootings ago" is in and of itself appalling,) when NRA shills started blaming the "gun-free zone" for causing the shooting, instead of blaming the actual shooter.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
LobowolfXXX
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It seems like a large number of these mass shootings occur at public schools where guns aren't permitted.

There can be a fine line between fact and opinion. A lot of beliefs are called opinions, when they're unverified statements of fact.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rowdymagi5
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.


As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.





That is hilarious. Police Officers need to turn their guns in. In an event of an emergecy, if someone pulls a gun on them, they can always grab a "desk" or some other object available and "clock" them with it.
balducci
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On Dec 18, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

However, the vast majority of people who die in cars don't do so intentionally.

Yes. Whereas the vast majority of those who die by guns in the U.S. do. ("Today, suicides account for roughly two out of every three gun deaths.")

Another difference is that the "steady decline in motor vehicle deaths over the past 65 years can be attributed to a combination of improved technology and smarter regulation". Obviously, not so with guns. ("Technological advances ... have been stymied by opposition from the National Rifle Association and from many gun owners. Modest regulatory changes ... enjoy overwhelming support from gun owners and the American public. But those, too, have been thwarted under pressure from gun-rights advocates and the NRA.")
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.


As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.





That is hilarious. Police Officers need to turn their guns in. In an event of an emergecy, if someone pulls a gun on them, they can always grab a "desk" or some other object available and "clock" them with it.

Oh please. You're twisting the hypothetical and my words. The hypothetical was a room full of unarmed people and a lone gunman walking down the line shooting them one by one. Police officers are trained and expected to use firearms; they don't even factor into the equation.

Besides, it's no more ridiculous than some of the things I've read on this board where people expressed their desire to grab their gun and run into an active shooter situation to kill themselves a "bad guy."
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, rowdymagi5 wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
And today we learn that Slim King does not know the difference between fact and opinion. We can't blame him, really- most of the so called journalists he reads don't know the difference, either.

As for the hypothetical situation where the guy with the gun was going down a row and shooting people, one by one, in the head, no, I wouldn't want a gun. I'd just pull out my lightsaber and- oh, sorry. I guess my response should be grounded in real life even if the problem isn't. There's actually training videos related to such a situation; the proper response is to grab anything you can, throw it at the shooter, then tackle and restrain him in any way possible. I could probably clock him pretty good with a desk or even a table through sheer adreneline. And I'd probably do it before he worked his way too far down the line- probably right after the first victim, if not right when he pulled his gun out.


As I said above, more guns is not the solution. Think about it- by just letting everyone have guns, you're giving them to the 'bad guys' as well as the 'good guys.'

I'm not opposed to gun ownership. But I'm still waiting for one of the pro-gun guys to suggest some sort of regulation they can live with. Otherwise I'll just assume they want either leave things exactly as they are, or else hand every man, woman, and child a loaded gun regardless of mental state or criminal inclinations and let natural selection finish the job.





That is hilarious. Police Officers need to turn their guns in. In an event of an emergecy, if someone pulls a gun on them, they can always grab a "desk" or some other object available and "clock" them with it.

Oh please. You're twisting the hypothetical and my words. The hypothetical was a room full of unarmed people and a lone gunman walking down the line shooting them one by one. Police officers are trained and expected to use firearms; they don't even factor into the equation.

Besides, it's no more ridiculous than some of the things I've read on this board where people expressed their desire to grab their gun and run into an active shooter situation to kill themselves a "bad guy."


So your goal is to be no more ridiculous than the dumbest person on the other side?

Your problem is you speak in hyperbole and sound bites. Fantastic it makes you feel clever and you can have the smartest guy in the room feel of you like. But so weekday? Try talking in actual examples and not ridiculous hypothetical situations that never ever happen.

Why do gun owners have to submit to regulation? To make you feel better?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:

However, the vast majority of people who die in cars don't do so intentionally.

Yes. Whereas the vast majority of those who die by guns in the U.S. do. ("Today, suicides account for roughly two out of every three gun deaths.")


Right. That's was the unstated part of my point.

Or to put it another way, even if the per capita deaths from cars and guns are the same, for those of us not planning on killing ourselves, guns are still about three times safer than cars.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
EsnRedshirt
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Danny, I was responding to a ridiculous hypothetical upthread. It was then taken out of context that I was advocating disarming cops.

I think a lot of people would feel better- safer- if there was a bit more regulation on firearms. (Or, as you argue, the existing regulations on firearms were better enforced.)
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* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
The hypothetical was a room full of unarmed people and a lone gunman walking down the line shooting them one by one.


I think the gun advocates would agree that if you're unarmed in such a situation, then the best you can do is throw* a stapler (or whatever) at the gumnan. They just don't find that scenario to be better than the one in which they're armed



*It's not so clear that you support this line of defense; you did also mention that the police are trained in the use of firearms, so perhaps civilians who haven't watched the "throw something at your attacker" training video shouldn't throw things.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Danny, I was responding to a ridiculous hypothetical upthread. It was then taken out of context that I was advocating disarming cops.

I think a lot of people would feel better- safer- if there was a bit more regulation on firearms. (Or, as you argue, the existing regulations on firearms were better enforced.)


I think a LOT of peole would feel less safe if there were a bit more regulation. So what?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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I have to say, if my goal were to shoot a lot of people and live long enough to either escape or to kill the greatest number of people possible, I'd prefer an environment where someone might throw something at me and rush me to one where someone might pull a gun and shoot back at me. Your mileage may vary, but I don't think I'm over thinking this.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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There are gun owners and there are gun owners: If America was invaded by foreigners would they have the right to bear arms?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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That would be my preference Lobo.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Or we could just get used to the idea that in America nuts with guns are going to regularly massacre innocent people. You know, like if you live in the desert you get used to it being hot. Nothing you can do about it.


That's how we did it with cars and swimming pools.

Cars are a good example. You never see national news reports about the people killed in cars on any given day. As blood splattered schoolrooms and work places and theaters, ect, become more common, the news media will doubtless begin to ignore it the same way it does the daily highway carnage. Mass shootings will become such a boring, everyday occurrence that ratings hungry news outlets will have to move on to something more unique to hold viewers' attention between the commercials. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.



Puhleeze, such nonsense. We all know that in using cars or pools there is risk involved. The risk is quite small and manageable.

My apologies if someone posted this already today (I'm only sampling this thread from time to time, not reading the entire thing):

"For the first time in more than 60 years, firearms and automobiles are killing Americans at an identical rate, according to new mortality data released this month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In 2014, the age-adjusted death rate for both firearms (including homicides, suicides and accidental deaths) and motor vehicle events (car crashes, collisions between cars and pedestrians, etc) stood at 10.3 deaths per 100,000 people. The convergence of the trend lines above is driven primarily by a sharp drop in the rate of motor vehicle fatalities since 1950."

Image


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk......the-u-s/



I am curious as to the "age-adjusted" aspect of the graph, specially, what sort of adjustment is made, and why one needs to be made at all, when the entire raw data are available. The default at the CDC website is not to adjust for age; I'd be willing to bet (though I don't have the time to browse through and click all of oodles of categories) that using the actual numbers of deaths would show a result more favorable to the gun advocates.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
However, the vast majority of people who die in cars don't do so intentionally.



Yes, it's true, the cars snuck up on them, lured them inside, then strapped and locked them inside. They were victims of automobile abduction and vehicular terrorism. Militant motorcars are killing innocents. Something must be done!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 18, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
However, the vast majority of people who die in cars don't do so intentionally.



Yes, it's true, the cars snuck up on them, lured them inside, then strapped and locked them inside. They were victims of automobile abduction and vehicular terrorism. Militant motorcars are killing innocents. Something must be done!


Yea because that was what he meant.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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So you agree that people in cars wanted to be there?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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I agree talking with you is a waste of time. When when you try to use normal sentences it is pointless.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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