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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Active shooting in Califonia (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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It's not a logical fallacy; it's an argument structure that may be the basis for either a valid argument or a flawed one.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Slim King wrote:
This affirms my position that CROOKS will always find a way to get a gun.

Um, yeah. AR-15's cost like $500 when legally purchased (as opposed to something like $30,000 on the black market,) and there's no real way to prevent someone from just buying one for someone else. So of course the crooks will get guns.

Maybe if we had a few common sense restrictions- waiting periods, etc.- and a few less guns, it wouldn't be so easy for crooks to get them.


It would help your argument a LOT more if you could actually know what it is you are talking about.

So since you concede the crooks will get guns, why disarm law abiding folks? Since it is the criminals who have been using them for terrible things, why punish law abiding citizens? Why is it this question never gets answered?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Slim King wrote:
This affirms my position that CROOKS will always find a way to get a gun.

Um, yeah. AR-15's cost like $500 when legally purchased (as opposed to something like $30,000 on the black market,) and there's no real way to prevent someone from just buying one for someone else. So of course the crooks will get guns.

Maybe if we had a few common sense restrictions- waiting periods, etc.- and a few less guns, it wouldn't be so easy for crooks to get them.

Yeah, but that's a slippery slope. If we make it harder for criminals and terrorists to legally buy guns, it's just a matter of time before Obama starts going house to house confiscating the weapons of law-abiding gun owners.

Slippery slope is a logical fallacy. Sometimes it is easily identified by the use of the words "slippery slope" in an argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope


Incorrect.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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The craziness is that 1 in 1,000,000 do something wrong and the reflex is to take away rights from the other 999,999.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Slim King wrote:
This affirms my position that CROOKS will always find a way to get a gun.

Um, yeah. AR-15's cost like $500 when legally purchased (as opposed to something like $30,000 on the black market,) and there's no real way to prevent someone from just buying one for someone else. So of course the crooks will get guns.

Maybe if we had a few common sense restrictions- waiting periods, etc.- and a few less guns, it wouldn't be so easy for crooks to get them.


Do you have a source for that $30,000 number?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
lunatik
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Slim King wrote:
This affirms my position that CROOKS will always find a way to get a gun.

Um, yeah. AR-15's cost like $500 when legally purchased (as opposed to something like $30,000 on the black market,) and there's no real way to prevent someone from just buying one for someone else. So of course the crooks will get guns.

Maybe if we had a few common sense restrictions- waiting periods, etc.- and a few less guns, it wouldn't be so easy for crooks to get them.


Who is going to pay $30,000 for an AR-15? They'd have to be REALLY naive to do so. I might pick up a few and flip them for some nice profit, please have them contact me and I'll cut you a 10% finders fee.
Making guns harder to acquire legally by law abiding citizens has not slowed down criminals in doing so and never will.
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
It's not a logical fallacy; it's an argument structure that may be the basis for either a valid argument or a flawed one.
I would concede that, if he'd bothered to explain the logical chain of progression. Because right now, our politicians (and quite a few gun owners) scream bloody murder the second someone mentions any restrictions at all. I can't conceive of any logical chain of events that leads to outright confiscation.

I can't even conceive of any logical chain of events that leads to the smallest restriction on firearms being passed on a national level. If Sandy Hook resulted in diddly squat legislatively, nothing can bring about change.

I do find it amusing that a lot of people seem to want to violate privacy rights, religous freedoms, habeus corpus, and a bunch of other Amendments to "protect" us, but refuse to even look at the Second Amendment.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
LobowolfXXX
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure he was being ironic.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Randwill wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, balducci wrote:
While you were sleeping ...

"The Senate rejected a measure ... from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms on a 45 to 54 vote."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powe......hooting/

Why on earth would you want to deprive people on a terror watch list from their God-given and Constitutionally protected right to buy firearms? Those freedom-hating librols are at it again.


Would you support taking other freedoms from them as well? Ir is it just this so you can be sarcastic and all proud of yourself?


I know this conversation has many branches, but I'd just like to say here, that I agree with conservatives on this, because the whole concept of a warrantless watchlist with no judicial overview or recourse to challenge, and which already restricts all kinds of rights besides gun ownership, is inherently unconstitutional. It is the defining feature of an authoritarian government.
tommy
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, NicholasD wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, tommy wrote:
The F.B.I. is treating the Wednesday shooting as a potential terrorist act, though the agency is far from concluding that it was, two law enforcement officials said.


I wonder who's preventing them from concluding that it was a terrorist act when everyone else now knows it was? Wait...I think I know.



Everyone but me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Professor Marvel
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We don't need to seize everyone's guns to make some common sense changes to gun policy. Things like limiting clip capacity and commonly available weapons types can help limit tragedies. The 2nd amendment does not grant absolute right to bear all arms of any kind.
The Hermit
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Slim King wrote:
This affirms my position that CROOKS will always find a way to get a gun.

Um, yeah. AR-15's cost like $500 when legally purchased (as opposed to something like $30,000 on the black market,) and there's no real way to prevent someone from just buying one for someone else. So of course the crooks will get guns.

Maybe if we had a few common sense restrictions- waiting periods, etc.- and a few less guns, it wouldn't be so easy for crooks to get them.



I think you should start shopping at a different market. You're way overpaying. All those common sense ideas are in effect in CA. Background, waiting, etc. and still a muslim terrorist who in the past few days has been talking with known terrorists bought legal guns. Common sense restrictions are fine, but the problem is not the gun but the terrorist.

I love how everyone talks about the 'gun culture' in the US and how it's responsible for these mass killings. In this case, the 'culture' that did all the killing was something else. Appears to be as dangerous as the other.
tommy
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How do you know if you are on a terror watch list?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, LobowolfXXX wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure he was being ironic.


Actually he might have been being sarcastic. It might be ironic you missed that though.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Daryl -the other brother
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
but the problem is not the gun but the terrorist.



Smile If we are talking about the California shootings the subject is not gun control, it terrorism.
LobowolfXXX
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Sarcasm is my favorite form of irony.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Anand Khalsa
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This was a very frightening and unfortunate situation.

My mom grew up in San Bernardino, and most of my family lives there.

My grandfather was less than a mile away when it happened.

I never realized how much more impact a shooting like this has viscerally when it hits close to home.
RNK
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Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Until there's an investigation, we won't know if it was terrorism or just extreme workplace violence.

It doesn't follow typical terrorist attack pattern- there were certainly targets which would have had a greater impact- shopping mall, courthouses, etc. The attackers didn't inflict more casualties when they could have, they stayed in the general area afterwards, and nobody blew themselves up.

One suspect knew the group involved, so it wasn't random. He was at the event, left angry, and came back shooting.

Let's let the investigators determine a motive before we start making accusations. Causing fear, anger, and rash decisions is exactly what terrorists want to do, let's not give in to their desires.


Well we know now Redshirt. http://news.yahoo.com/pious-california-k......30.html#

She HAD ties to ISIS and pledged her allegiance to them! I mean really- get your head out of the sand!
Anand Khalsa
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, RNK wrote:

Well we know now Redshirt. http://news.yahoo.com/pious-california-k......30.html#

She HAD ties to ISIS and pledged her allegiance to them! I mean really- get your head out of the sand!


The two attackers were no doubt tied to ISIS/Daesh. It was a terrorist plot, that's not up for debate.

The point of divergence between liberals and conservatives comes when we talk about what we should do about it, not who perpetrated it.
Dannydoyle
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Would gun control laws have stopped a terrorist?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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