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Salguod Nairb
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On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Sure Danny.

Why do people have different viewpoints?
We are all human. Basically we want the same things, regardless of where we're born or what we believe. We should be able to come an agreement as to what constitutes acceptable behavior.

It shouldn't be difficult, but according to some it's impossible.
Why?

What is the base of any morality which cause one person/country to initiate violence against another?


Have you not met the human race? We are not much more than Neanderthals with cell phones...
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
RNK
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On Apr 19, 2017, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Not more trusting, N.Korea leaders have been loony for decades. If they actually attack and not continue to posture the way they have, then I have no problems dropping bombs.

However, dropping bombs because they make us feel nervous sets the wrong precedent for the U.S.A.


N. Korea is not allowed to have nuclear weapons. This has been decided and agreed by 5 major countries. N. Korea is ignoring this and continues to develop them. Dialogue and sanctions have been proven not to work for many years now. Eventually there will be only one option left.
LobowolfXXX
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On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Basically we want the same things


...and the first crack in the dam appears.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Salguod Nairb
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On Apr 20, 2017, RNK wrote:

N. Korea is not allowed to have nuclear weapons. This has been decided and agreed by 5 major countries. N. Korea is ignoring this and continues to develop them. Dialogue and sanctions have been proven not to work for many years now. Eventually there will be only one option left.




What is that option?
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
0pus
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Nuke 'em 'til they glow.
Salguod Nairb
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South Korea may not like that radioactive cloud blowing towards them.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
NYCTwister
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On Apr 20, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Basically we want the same things


...and the first crack in the dam appears.


Health? Happiness?
The freedom to live our lives free from violence and oppression?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Oh, I agree that almost everybody wants SOME OF the same things, but that's not nearly enough to reach your conclusion. Not without your horse -wish transmogrifier.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Agreement? Between billions of people with vastly different cultures and life experiences? Certainly you must be joking.

Why do people have different viewpoints? Precisely because they ARE humans.



People have different viewpoints because they have different beliefs; which cause them to take different actions.

All the problems we face as a species are connected. At the base of all of them are flawed world views stemming from flawed beliefs, which focus on the differences between us.
No one wants to address this because feelings get hurt; and the people who sell the weapons think it's just dandy.
No need to enslave those who put the chains on willingly.

I have never used the word utopia. That's just you.

I'm just talking about what should be a natural result of our collective learning.

Instead we do stupid things. We destroy when we should create. We make new problems and let old ones go unaddressed.

Why?

You, and many others, appear to have given up. That's fine - you do you.
I haven't because, ironically, I have faith.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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On Apr 20, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Oh, I agree that almost everybody wants SOME OF the same things, but that's not nearly enough to reach your conclusion. Not without your horse -wish transmogrifier.


We could try education instead of indoctrination, if just for the new experience.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dannydoyle
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Flawed according to which standard exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Oh, I agree that almost everybody wants SOME OF the same things, but that's not nearly enough to reach your conclusion. Not without your horse -wish transmogrifier.


We could try education instead of indoctrination, if just for the new experience.


If you think that mass education will lead to universal agreement, I think it's actually indoctrination that's your only shot.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Flawed according to which standard exactly?


Objective standards.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Oh, I agree that almost everybody wants SOME OF the same things, but that's not nearly enough to reach your conclusion. Not without your horse -wish transmogrifier.


We could try education instead of indoctrination, if just for the new experience.


If you think that mass education will lead to universal agreement, I think it's actually indoctrination that's your only shot.


I'm not talking about "mass" education, or some sort of instant agreement.
I'm talking about shedding the dogma that sets us against each other, and allows they very few to lead the credulous many around by the nose.

I've never seen a baby that hated anything or anyone. We're taught to hate.

Why?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Your baby example doesn't prove, or even suggest that we're "taught to hate." Babies don't have the capacity to engage in moral reasoning or judgment. When those capacities are developed, they lead people in different - sometimes radically different - directions.

And always will.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Flawed according to which standard exactly?


Objective standards.


What active social process would you give as example of an objective standard?

Just to make sure we're on the same planet here rather than Tlon or some eUtopia... Which is heavier, a pound of gold or a pound of feathers?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
LobowolfXXX
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The feathers, which are not measured in Troy weight.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Flawed according to which standard exactly?


Objective standards.


Whose objective standards?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Flawed according to which standard exactly?


Objective standards.


Whose objective standards?


Not whose Danny.

Can anyone who professes to be good disagree that it is wrong to initiate violence, mental or physical, against another.
I don't think so, but all the dogmas that too many base their moral code on allows for it - based on difference or disagreement - in one way or another.

To me they are all inherently flawed and need to be weeded out. ALL of them set some "us" against some other "them".

There are rules, standards of conduct, that rational people could agree on as being fair to all. We just need to stop passing down nonsense to new generations. But far to many would rather die, or kill, than admit they might be wrong.

And there are many con men who see a world full of the credulous and lick their chops.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Just as a for instance, is abortion legal in objectiveopia?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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