BTW, for anyone interested in the other side to this story, Apollo was on a podcast sometime after Gregory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjbva_lg0zw

Robbins' side of the story doesn't add up at all. He should be ashamed of himself for the duplicitous smears he continues to make against Gregory Wilson.

Care to explain your comments, lane99? I can't see anything more believable in either one's account. Both made accusations without any real proof. Why do you feel that Apollo's account makes any less sense than Greg's?

Jim

First, as a rule of thumb, the one who finds it necessary to malign people in such ways as calling them phony Christians or equating their behaviour with that of pedophiles, for the love of Pete, is almost certainly the one compensating for not having the truth on their side.

Second, the podcasts- and the DVD's referred to therein- I find speak for themselves. The cracks in Robbins' story begin to appear at the point he dodges the interviewer's question about whether, in Wilson's DVD, Wilson gives Robbins credit for the coin on shoulder move. Well, the fact is he does.

So what we appear to have here is a situation where Robbins is impugning someone's character on the pretense that wasn't given credit owed. When he was given credit. Not to mention (if the claims in some posts above are accurate) the irony of Robbins complaining about not getting credit for something he didn't even truly originate.

I myself am guilty of starting a thread with an inappropriate and misleading title, but I also made sure to clear it up and apologize when I realized how stupid I was being.

To be honest, I didn't take the time to read everyone's replies. But this thread should have never been started in the first place. Nothing good will come of it, but it WILL help produce drama, or at least fan the flame of some preexisting childish dramatics.

I love the Café because I can come one here and learn from wonderful people who I am blessed to call peers. But I don't even see the OP making any attempt to follow up on this post....which just proves to me that it is for the drama.

Why can't we all just share the magic when it's necessary and keep the secrets when it's not. The rest is high school.

Lane99, thank you for the reply.

Race Blakhart, perhaps what you say is true, but crediting and lack thereof along with copying/stealing of others' creations are a regular topic discussed in just about every subforum here on the Café. Is this really an "off-limits" topic? Shouldn’t be discussed at all by the members here?

Thank you.

Jim

Where does James Brown and his pot of jam come in to this ?

When did I say it is "off limits" as your quotation marks would claim? I just said it's childish. I think that these problems are between the people involved. Not us. These threads don't do anything but cause drama. Nothing good will come of it, and you know it. I don't even know how I let myself get sucked into this trollfest. I myself have now become I troll. Goodbye.

I'm going back to the threads that are actually worthwhile and productive.

Not to mention, my post was obviously about the OP, and the fact that he started a thread just to induce drama. Which obviously worked, as he's turned us all into trolls.

You all have fun debating eachother...about other people's problems.

Do you think Gregory Wilson is childish for starting it by airing his grievance on a podcast?

Danny,
You are right. Greg really brought much of this on himself by airing it on the podcast. Of course other sides are going to come out. The fact that Greg threw so many people under the bus (whether rightfully or not, I don't know), is going to invite most, if not all of those to respond.
KJ

I'd like to think Danny Kazam wouldn't have asked that question if he'd listened to both podcasts. It's quite right that Gregory Wilson has finally- after years of biting his tongue publicly and trying to settle things, man to man, in private- addressed malicious rumours started and perpetuated by Apollo Robbins and his teenage mean-girl clique of rumour mongers and chinese whisperers.

When I asked the question Apollo's response on Scott's podcast was not aired. I listened to it the day it did air. Obviously two sides of the story and I don't take either sides.

Apollo's response (in which he added a laundry list of additional grievances beyond what Gregory first spoke about) was published at least a week before you asked the question.

I don't know what your getting at but when I made the post I had not heard Apollo's response on Scott's podcast I subscribe to.

There's a new podcast up with Scott wells and Cosmo Silano and it's more hating on Greg :/

Apollo Robbins was being deliberately deceptive in his comments about Gregory Wilson. Cosmo, on the other hand, comes off as being simply feckless. The thing Apollo and Cosmo have in common, though, is neither guy could keep their story straight.

Deliberately deceptive? I didn't read it that way at all. Being uncertain of exact dates or exact words from conversations years ago is not dishonest. Memory is fallible, and both said as much. The main points of their respective versions of events are tenable in my opinion. Until and unless further evidence arises, I believe them.

According to Scott Wells more are lining up to record his podcast with similar allegations. This is proof of nothing, but each supporting claim adds to the credibility of others.

I think the title of this thread is ugly, unfortunate, borders on slanderous, and should be changed.

SWN

The entire situation is ugly and unfortunate.

First of all, I agree that the title of this thread is erroneous and unfortunate and should be changed. Secondly, the very first post was interesting on several levels...it is ironic that the person who stripped out the audio from my copyrighted podcast posted the audio on a video channel and it relates to thievery while he had no legal right to do so nor did the person even contact me to see if they could post it on YouTube. Next, they continue to post additional illegally excerpted audio from the Apollo podcast, and I full well expect that person to steal more audio and post them on his YouTube channel.

And finally, I don't know why this thread exists here when there is one already on the Café (at: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewforum.php?forum=333 ) about all of the podcasts on The Magic Word where anyone can post their comments (as they do here) concerning any individual podcast, including the one about Gregory Wilson that started it all.

For those who already subscribe to The Magic Word Podcast, you have kept up with the controversy (and more). But you should know that it was Gregory (whom I believe is lane99 on this thread and Adam Lane on the Genii Forum...if I am wrong, then I implore Adam Lane to call me, not PM me. I want to hear your voice) who was tired of his accusers making their allegations and he wanted to have a public forum to draw them out so he can address each one with the "truth" as he knows it, or his "construct of reality" as Apollo calls it.

But by calling out many people by name, it is only fair that they should put on their own defense and tell their side of the story and let the "court of public opinion" be the ultimate judge on the issue. The intent was and shall remain, not to defame or assassinate the character of my friend, Gregory, or any individual. Many people have contacted me to give stories about Gregory though I do not feel that they are cogent to the conversation and I don't intend to change the format of The Magic Word Podcast into becoming a platform for hate mongering and broadcasting expressions of opinions about others in our industry. I will say that there are others mentioned by Greg who will be in upcoming podcasts before Greg returns to "rest his defense".

But I like Apollo's reason for agreeing to come on the podcast: to shine light on a dark area of our magic community that has been long overdue for some sunlight. In particular, theft and entitlement. Certainly the conversation has begun here and on other forums and in personal discussions among magicians around the world.

For example, I will leave you with this question for your consideration and discussion: should someone have a right to be paid for their performance if they learned it from a YouTube video posted by someone who was not the creator of the effect? In other words, if the person who posts the video is exposing the method but it is not their trick or not from their lecture, book or DVD, and basically have not claim or right to its creation, then should a magician who views that video take that trick and put it in their show and not compensate the originator of the trick? Is that ethical or honest?

To answer your question hasn't that happened for decades with knock off tricks in brick and mortar magic shops?