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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts 
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By that logic then they can be used as wanted for You Tube exposure without anyone crying foul. Yet somehow there seems to be a difference huh?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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Actually, no, I don't really see a difference. Also, teaching is exposure.
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RC Regular user 111 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 1, 2016, eralph357 wrote: That is some Yoda Master Jedi stuff right here. 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 2, 2016, 0pus wrote: Interesting position.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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micromega123 Loyal user 212 Posts
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I've often wondered about the idea of teaching or exposing methods because they are considered beginner material and supposedly not used by professionals. I've seen plenty of 'beginner' material used by working professionals. For example, I know that Daryl and Rich Marotta use a rope move found in Mark Wilsons magic book. I've seen Michael Ammar use a !@#$* D*** quite a few times. CMH is another effect that seems to be appearing in beginner magic books as well, not to mention the Internet, but people like Jon Allen use it professionally. What I'm suggesting is that there's no way to tell for sure whether or not a professional is using a particular method or trick.
I'm not taking a stance with regard to exposure in general here, I'm just suspicious of attempts to introduce a clear demarcation between 'beginner' and 'professional' methods or effects. |
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RC Regular user 111 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2016, micromega123 wrote: I agree. I think it's definitely something worthy of discussion and thought. I've seen a few items placed into a magic kit that were in my opinion too advanced for a beginner & lent itself to exposure. I took my video down because of some good points brought up here. As far as magic kits go, I think more often than not the "pro" effects are discarded b/c of their difficulty, and a true working magician could still fool someone who had that kit (ex. cups & balls). I remember when Penn & Teller exposed the th*** t*p. That was a little surprising, yet I still use it from time to time without any worry or problems. It's interesting to hear people's different & well-thought out perspectives on here. |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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Let me clarify.
When one publishes a writing (say a mathematics textbook or a piece teaching how to do a sleight), it is, and should be, protected against another person copying the textbook or piece describing the sleight. However, the mathematics taught in the textbook, and the sleight described in the piece, are NOT protected. Anyone can use - and teach - the mathematics or the sleights described/taught. I think that rants against "exposure" are generally attributable to persons who think that they are "in the know" and want to lord their "secrets" over those who do not know. And arguments about whether a sleight is in the working repertoire of a professional magician or not are just rationalizations designed to perpetuate the distinction between those "in the know" and those not. It's a little pathetic. |
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Charles Gaff Loyal user 204 Posts
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Knowledge is power. The teaching of a method has the ability to ruin the entertainment/control value of any illusion. I like the idea of keeping the secret. But...
Many great things I've enjoyed in magic were someone's compilation of someone else's moves. Because I payed twenty dollars for it, is it ok for the person to teach me? Of course I say yes, but is the standard I gave something for the compilation? Or that the person cited the source? Or the person did the routine backwards, or wiggled their thumb differently? Is it because they have the respect of the community? I think the hidden blog was a good thing, and am bummed it got removed for the reasons I understand. For the record, my mind has been known to change. I enjoy the opportunity to engage and evaluate. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2016, 0pus wrote: How about things that are not published?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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Stealing an act?
Impermissible. Reverse engineering a method/sleight? Permissible. Method or sleight shared by the inventor among the underground? If you are a member of the group to which a method/sleight has been disclosed/taught, then can be used/passed on/taught unless you have agreed otherwise (in which case, you would be bound by your agreement). |
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RC Regular user 111 Posts
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On Feb 4, 2016, 0pus wrote: Well put. Thanks for sharing your insight. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 4, 2016, 0pus wrote: You are sort of getting to my point. There IS a point at which it becomes wrong to do these things. THAT Is what needs to be thought about. What about a method that was stolen and now seems to be part of "public domain"?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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I would think that that has more to do with how the "receiver" of the information has come by the info.
Assume that the disclosing party has received the information from the "originator." (1) Assume further that the originator disclosed the information to the disclosing party without imposing any restrictions against further disclosure. (A) The disclosing party should be able to disclose/teach the trick; any student of the disclosing party should be able to use that trick in any way without restriction. (2) Assume that the originator disclosed the information to the disclosing party AND legitimately imposed a restriction against further disclosure. (A) The disclosing party should not be able to disclose/teach the trick, and if he does, the originator's beef is with the disclosing party. (B) If the disclosing party teaches or otherwise passes on the trick, (i) any student of the disclosing party who did not know that the trick was under restriction as agreed between the originator and the disclosing party at the time it is taught to him should be able to use that trick in any way without restriction (the student without notice); and (ii) any student of the disclosing party who does know that the trick is under restriction as agreed between the originator and the disclosing party at the time it is taught to him should NOT be able to use that trick (the student with notice). How else might a trick/method be stolen? |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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I may not have fully answered your question. In the case of (2)(B)(i) above, the trick becomes "public domain" in the hands of the student without notice. The cat is out of the bag. Any remedy for the originator should be supplied by the person who disclosed it against the originator's restriction. And, presumably, the originator will learn that the disclosing party is a blabbermouth.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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You have fully answered me. No problem. You have logical thought about it and that is all that really matters.
I also believe that a "secret" can not be published and still be referred to as a "secret. I think in magic WAY too much emphasis is put on "secrets" and trying in vain to keep them. May as well buy a donkey and find a windmill.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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RC Regular user 111 Posts
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“The truth may be stretched thin, but it never breaks, and it always surfaces above lies, as oil floats on water.” -Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Posted: Feb 2, 2016 06:24 pm 
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