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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Anyone have any thoughts on how to make a simple overhead projector? What I want is to be able to work in front of an audience on a table, and project what I am doing onto a screen so all can see. I know I could use several different video projector systems, but I would prefer to go less complex. I think it can be done with bright light, Lens and mirror. Any thoughts?
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
It sounds like you might be equating complex with $$. I can't help but think that these things (video projection systems) are built the way they are for a reason... quality of image probably being the most important factor. Think of the difference between a 8mm home movie projector and those used in theaters. It takes some serious power to project a clear image at a reasonable size for a crowd to see it.
I wonder if a DIY opaque projector would work. The trick would be, how far can the device be from your table top and still pick up a decent image? I suspect it would require some expensive lenses and extremely bright light.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Actually, there is totally new technology for overhead camera projection. Small and compact and not that expensive. Although you will need a screen to project it on.
This is just one example, but they have a whole range of different models. Ran across it 2 months ago looking for a scanner. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/......tId=1822 |
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
You can buy used overhead projectors on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Concept-2250-Overh......&sr=1-38
Also check out your local schools who may have old projectors for sale that just need bulbs or a little bit of work.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't a standard overhead projector work by use of a transparency on the light bed? It seems that it would not be possible to perform close-up magic on such a bed and have it project as desired.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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gimpy2 Special user 960 Posts |
Hope Im not straying to far off topic here but I question if this type of performance is something the audience enjoys. I have seen some wonderful performers do this on stage and it seems flat and a bit of a bore to me. Saw this done with cards at a large convention and magicians seemed to enjoy it but saw the same fellow do the same act for a lay audience and the kids became very restless and clearly had no interest. Love close up magic but for me the fact that its right under your nose is what makes it great. Just my opinion.
Gimpy
www.gimpysmagic.com |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Gimpy2, you are correct in my opinion as well. It is like wanting to see a famous person "in person" and going to a concert or show and all you can see is a him on is a big screen TV. Easier to stay at home with your own big screen TV.
Kids want and need interaction with them. They are, hard to do that if you are working for the camera and not the live audience. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Michael Baker, you are correct, but as I mentioned, technology has changed. No need for transparent acetate sheets. Camera technology is so small and cheap now, with great resolution and automatic focus that makes it cheaper and easier.
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
Michael,
You are correct. The above suggested recommendations will not do the job. Lighting from the bottom is intended for transparencies not opaque objects.. What the OP needs is top lighting instead of bottom light. Cliff, A well lit table and a camcorder plugged into a projector and a screen should work. If you want to show different angles, you will need a mobile cameraman. You can also try rental houses to see what they have. Or try a wedding videographer. They usually have the equipment and experience. Good luck.
Ihor
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Thank you Ihop. I was hoping someone would validate my comments so I could avoid another senseless Magic Café debate. I was hoping to help the OP and not fight for the right to be right. Opaque projectors are designed to work with non-transparency images, but the manner by which they work does not make them conducive to a performance surface unless (and this was merely a question) if there could be sufficient space between the work surface and the housing of the projector. I see that as a cumbersome set up at best, especially since a tiny Go-Pro camera would easily do the job. They are comparatively cheap. The projection system is where the money will (and should) be spent. Without a clear projected image, any efforts to use one would be moot.
I have worked with cameras mounted to a rack overhead (even old-style camcorders), shooting directly down onto the work surface. I have also worked with a camera operator shooting from the front. Both were direct live feeds to large screen above and behind me. There is also the trick used in TV studios of having a large mirror mounted at an angle over the work surface. The camera is videoing the mirror. This is very common with studio cooking demonstrations where you don't want expensive cameras hanging directly over the heat from a stove top. Some venues already have a projection system in place, especially if they cater business functions. Providing a suitable camera is often your responsibility since most projection screens are set up for use with images coming from a computer only (think Powerpoint).
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Ihop Inner circle Glen Spey, NY 1604 Posts |
Ah!!
GoPro! That's the way to go. I like the mirrors idea.
Ihor
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Michael and Ihop, you both are absolutely correct, I totally misread the OP original question. I thought it sounded odd, but I did not comprehend his use of terminology.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
A lot of good points have been made here. I think the key to not boring the audience with a TV show, is keeping it short and tight. This is not the time for "around the world," "Red hot mama," or any other long winded trick. I saw Steve Wyrick in Vegas do "Sam the Bellhop" that way on a video screen. It worked, but I agree it lagged the show a bit.
One of the reasons I wanted to go simple and not complex, and yes Michael, Cheap, was that I am not doing a whole show on it, just a couple of quick bits.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
My choices would boil down to these:
1) Invest in a good system and find a way to get more and better use from it, including possible alternate uses other than just in the show. 2) Forget the idea and build a different show. It's like all those cool moves for the Cups & Balls... just because you can, doesn't mean you should. We can each weigh our own pros and cons. If I had trouble making a decision, I'd flip a coin and be done with it. Sometimes there are bigger fish to fry.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
If you find an overhead projector (yes, the kind that uses transparencies) in your price range, it is worth having for several reasons. Cliff recently inquired about Winston Freer's Tile Deal on the Magic Nook, so I assumed that's what he wanted it for, and you could easily make a transparent tile deal puzzle, as well as other types of cardboard puzzles, on transparencies. Other uses: transparent plastic playing cards, dominoes, and tiddlywinks.
What many people don't realize is that the same overhead projector works with outside bright lights directed down at the platform, just like an opaque projector, so you can do sponge balls, dice, and regular playing card tricks as well. The room lights have to be lowered for this use, however. I also use my overheads (I have 2) as spot lights that I can control from the stage without need for a light operator (just put a black mask on the platform with a cutout in the center - plus colored cellophane if desired). Because the light from an overhead produces a clear sharp shadow, they are ideal for shadow shows, either using the hands for the shadows, or shadow puppets*. You can also make transparent color shadow puppets that are operated on the light platform, as well as project a transparent color background for them to perform against. You can print your own transparencies on any inkjet color printer for this purpose. The light from an overhead is also great in illusions where you want to have a sharp clear shadow of the performer from inside the illusion, whatever it may be. The light is also bright enough to charge up luminous paint, for those still performing the "Ghostlite Mysteries" found in Tarbell Volume 2. My reason for having two overhead projectors is that I used to use them to demonstrate 3-D images using polarized 3-D glasses, as well as the red and blue 3-D comic book glasses for science magic shows in schools. It's fun to do a hands shadow of a flying bird where the shadow jumps off the screen and heads out into the audience, then flies back and finally turns into a live dove... but the audience has to all be wearing their 3-D glasses or they don't see it. It's good if you have a gig at a science museum or a movie theater where a 3-D movie is being shown. * My latest release in The Wizards' Journal #30 for 2016 is "The Adventures of Chicken Little" which includes instructions for a shadow play version, among other things. I had to get that plug in for those who hate it when I mention where they can go to learn more.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
The idea of using an outside light source on an overhead projector is basically the format of an opaque projector, and comes right back to creating a cumbersome set-up to achieve what is already being done in more efficient ways, i.e. camera and projection. But, to each his own.
The other uses for overhead projectors sound far more practical.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
Is there an advantage to an overhead projector over a couple of flat screen TVs and GoPro?
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
Price. Used Overhead on Amazon - $80. Less at a school surplus sale.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
I forgot to mention the uses of an overhead projector in mentalism and arithmancy, for magic squares and chess knight tours, and writing down predictions rather than using a white board. In spirtism, the intense heat from the projector lamp can produce or vanish thermal spirit writing as well as show mysterious movements about the projector stage.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Here is the basic of what I was looking for.
http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/mak......tor.220/ Check it out if you like and tell me what you think. I am thinking that I can put the body of the projector into one of those "themed" fake books that are very cheap and look great. In my day job as a high school Physics teacher, it turns out I have most of the needed material already in stock.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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