Vague conversations about the public, while they save the ego bruising a bit, are not effective without exact examples.

These are VERY basic mistakes you made. Adding to the "professionalism" as you want to do while these mistakes are rampant on the web page really are a symptom of the industry. All the "professionalism" you want to have won't help. It does not matter if it is all torn down by these mistakes. Basic mistakes at that.

The focus on price as opposed to the relationship with the client puts a performer in a VERY bad position. Why? Because in the end it comes down not to the relationship, or even the VALUE you provide, but rather just simply what it is you cost. This is a HUGE mistake. Unfortunately it is a quite common mistake. When a customer objects to price generally they are worried about what they are getting for the dollar. VALUE is usually the issue. If a client can see the value of the purchase, generally price is not that big an issue.

You will never get everyone to buy, nobody ever can. But avoiding the pitfalls you ran into here will help.

Also being on TV is great. It does a lot for the ego and it is neat. BUT if you can't show why YOU being on TV is of VALUE to your customer it means nothing. Just being on TV alone does not add value to your product. You have to be able to convey in a meaningful way to the client why that somehow adds value to the product you are selling. That product is you.

I agree. Also the whole deal about price brings something else to mind. So many performers just look at the price of the gig and that's it. But what should be considered is the LTV of the client/booking. So many performers lower their price or accept less just to keep their calendars full, but they are doing damage to themselves in the long run. Especially if they are doing things properly and offering a good performance that would stimulate word of mouth, referrals and such. All you need if for others to learn of your reduced or lower price and the messages it sends can be damaging long-term. You will always be perceived as that price or value, you will be known to them (whether you realize it or not) as the guy that is negotiable (which again also hurts the industry) and it makes it nearly impossible to later raise your prices to where they should be.

As mentioned, create positioning, branding and value to make them need you at your price. Eliminate price from the equation. Yes, you will lose some as there are some who will only ever look at price, but as I said before those are usually the ones you don't want anyhow and come with the biggest headaches. Anytime you lower your fee, these types of problematic bookings result.

I also agree with Danny statements about press and media coverage and being on t..v. Since it is so easy these days anyone can do it. It is more important how you use it and that you can know how to monetize it

I think something should be said for the lost opportunities that come from turning down a gig just because the prospect had a lower budget than your standard fee.

I've done MANY gigs where I performed at a reduced fee (sometimes as low 50% off), and not only was I able to book other events from that same customer at my full rate, but I've also booked full fee gigs from other people who saw me at that gig.

I'll give you two specific examples. About five years ago I received a call from an event planner for an upcoming event. Someone had seen me at another event and recommended me to the event planner. I quoted my fee, and she only had a budget of half of my quoted fee. Instead of turning down the gig, I told her that I would do it, because I wanted to be considered for future engagements.. The second time she called, it was also for a half off engagement. The third time she called, it was because someone had asked for me by name. At that event I asked for and received my full fee.

Since then I've received my full fee at almost every event I've booked through her. On a rare occasion we've had to negotiate the fee to make it work for everyone involved. I'm now her number one choice when a client needs a magician. Most of these gigs pay between $1500 and $3500 per event and I've booked at least a dozen gigs with her over the last five years. This would've never happened if I was wasn't willing to take the initial half off gig. Now we've built a relationship, and she considers me to be a part of her team.

Here's a second example. This past December I was called for a last minute gig. They had a budget of $500. Much less than my standard fee of $1500 for that type of event. It was during the day, and close to home, so I accepted it. Immediately after that show, I was approached by the VP of Business Development and was asked if I'd do a couple of hours of strolling magic at an event in Las Vegas. I quoted $2500 plus expenses and they booked me right away. I'm now in negotiation with them to do their upcoming trade shows at a fee of $3500 per day for multiple day shows. At the event in Las Vegas, I met some other people who are having an event later this year in Mexico, and we're currently in negotiation, and that fee will probably be worth five figures for that one event.

All this wouldn't have happened if I wasn't willing to take other opportunities that didn't pay my full fee.

I've always said, work gets work, and the more you work, the more work you'll get.

I've now been in business for 22 years, and taking lower priced work has never come back to bite me in the butt. Theoretically this approach can backfire, but I don't live in the world of theory, I live in the real world of application.

It's food for thought.

Lou Serrano

Bravo. I touched on it Lou but you naied it.

Great discussion!

For me, there has to be some type of justification for lower the price. I’ve lowered my price in exchange for a letter of recommendation or video testimonials. One time I had a birthday mom talk to her school principal about me doing a school assembly.

Customers do talk. And I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I don’t have good reason for a price difference. But in the end, this is my business and I'll run it the way I want, and will ultimately benefit me.

Ken your last sentence is SO important!

Do people get angry when a resort charges more in high season? Or when a car costs less when the new models come in? How about when a Wal-Mart sells things in clearance? They have entire sections of the store DEDICATED to it! In the end it is what Ken said people running a business as THEY see fit to make money. How much more "professional" can you get than that? Why do you think it is a bad thing for you? It boggles the mind.

Let people talk. Good on them if they are talking about YOU! Who cares if they are talking price. Do you SERIOUSLY think you can stop them from doing so? Why make it look like you are hiding something? If you give them a price with confidence, if you give them VALUE then the only thing they might think is that perhaps their friend got a deal just like mentioned above. Your way it seems as if you have something to hide and that does not make you look good at all. It makes you look FAR LESS professional than you think.

Lou NAILED it earlier. Lou perhaps a video blog about that subject might be in our future? IT IS SUCH A GREAT POINT! And you made it so well. Seriously I think it makes such a great point that many miss as illustrated in this thread OP.

Nash, nobody is bagging on you. If you want to do this your way then go ahead. It is up to you. But as has been pointed out by many it is only one opinion. It is not about you, but about what can be a serious business mistake people make often when not exactly starting out but rather moving past being a beginner and into trying to brand themselves. Often transitions from one stage of a career to another are very difficult.

I agree, but your point is also the problem. Many performers ARE doing it their own way and it's either not working for them and they are struggling to wonder why, or they do not know what they don't know, so rather than seek the knowledge, understanding and education they may need, they continue to do things they want to disappointing results.

Yes, we all have to do what's right for each of us, but more importantly what is congruent with our business plan and operational system. SO many operate from "me" or "I" as opposed it "it" (the business). Creating your own havoc doesn't do anyone well. But as we all know, many performers fail to have a business plan and operational system in place and just plug and go along. I know I've mentioned it as has Lou, having a business system in place is the key. Once it is so many of these regular questions asked here are answered (or prevented) by themselves or may not exist at all.

Build in to your price a LITTLE BIT (maybe $10-$20) of elbow room and let yourself reluctantly get talked into offering that much one-time discount.

Years back, I cut my price here and there to break into new markets (heck, most markets were new to me back then), or whenever a customer flinched. Today, I rarely do that. If anything, I’m finding that I keep pushing my prices up rather than take them downward.

Now I have on an occasion just AUTOMATICALLY QUOTED a lower price when a church group called, the show was relatively close to my house, I was purposely trying to fill a gap between 1-2 other bookings, or it was a last minute call and I had no shows booked that weekend. To me, though, I think this is a totally different animal than when someone is trying to talk you down in your price.

Gerry

Yes, Lou said it well above.

I call it a ‘first time buyer’s discount’ and see it as winning a lifetime customer instead of losing one sale.

New customers don’t always come cheap, but they are the most important part of the business.

Tom

Agree Tom.

It is cheaper to keep a customer then find a new one.

Great stories Lou, hope you'll get to have some authentic mexican food, I heard they are amazing

Work does create more work. If a lower paying show put you in front of a demographic that can lead you to more spin-off shows, then it should be considered (ex. For the last 5 yrs I've been doing a annual show for a company at a lower fee as the demographics are the HR group from the top corporations in my region.). If the show is close-by, low-maintenance, last minute, puts you in front of the right market, then yes, there's definitely wiggle rooms in terms of pricing.

But the struggle as we progress is that the higher one's fees become, the less we are able to justify giving discounts.
Client: "How much do you charge"
Magician: "$2,500"
Client: "We love your vids and reviews, I'm sure your show is worth every penny, but our budget is only $600"
Magician: "Ok, I appreciate you thought of my show, I can work with your budget"

If the client's budget is only a few hundreds apart ... a small little discount is fine. But IMO, it shows there's no pricing integrity if I'm able to talk someone down from their original price by a margin. This is something you do when you try to buy fake LV bags on the streets of Hong Kong, they gave you a price, you talk them wayyyyy down, they say "yes". It feels like that person just threw out a random price in the beginning and hope to get all your budget. I don't think running a business that way is healthy, nor does it reflect well on your product. Just my opinion and observation from not just our industry, but sales in general.

At the end of the day, it is important for us to know our 'bottom-line' when it comes to lowering prices

All of the things you mention are your own fault. I have never had anyone try to talk me down that far. If they do it is because they do not see the value in your shoe. I know you are stuck on this but man it seems like if someone equate your show with someone selling gale bags you have a major issue well beyond price.

Oh well do what you want. At least I hope others see the pitfalls.

One thing I forgot to mention is really the key contributing factor to why some people base their decision on pricing: The way they discover your service.
33% of my leads are from online search. Those leads are consistently my biggest price shoppers. For all of my referrals, pricing is almost never even a debate as they already know from their friends the ballpark rate of my service. Whereas I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that people try to talk you down in pricing is because you haven't exhibited enough value in your show; but sometimes, the potential buyer does see the value of your show, but she is given a strict budget by her boss.

Furthermore, most people that found us online are inexperienced entertainment buyers. When it comes to personal service, we tend to think pricing is probably negotiable. The moment they type "(local city) magician" into their search engine, their mind-set is already on "price shopping". My original post was precisely this scenario, which led to my point that sometimes, it is better not to take a show that falls below your bottom-line because they may not have the budget currently, but you don't know if they do in the future or not.

Hope this makes sense?

Sure what you are stating makes sense, but you seem to be accepting this ( as many performers do), when in reality it doesn't have to be this way. Same for the kids party magician that always claims that most of their clients are shopping on price. Perhaps, but why? Again, it doesn't have to be this way. Or the performer that claims all Gigmasters inquiries are only bottom-feeder leads that are shopping only on the best pricing.

What most seem not to understand or realize is that most of the times this is because you are making it that way. Yes, I can see exactly what you say, due to, in my opinion, it is because of the way you have your website. It leads to this process of thinking. Same for the guy that publishes their pricing on the websites for kids markets, once it is seen, the rest of your content (if even read) is used to try to justify or validate (in their uneducated mind) the price. It leads them to think from the "pricing" mentality.

I know many performers that their website leads are their premium leads, because they positioned themselves, their image and their website to be exactly this way. I also know many performers that never (okay rarely) get asked to reduce their price or are presented with a negotiable situation. I myself have tried to think back to the last time we've had this happen, either to me personally or at any of my agencies, and I really can't remember the last time it has happened, and yes, we book all kinds of events and markets including kids/family.

Same for if a client has the limited budget you mentioned. For example, if a client wants you and you quote $1,500 and she tells you their budget is only $800 (it could be any figure, i.e. $200/$450). The only optioned being discussed so far is do you reduce your price (and value) and accept it or turn it down? As if those are the only choices. My automatic response would be "while our price is our standard price and there isn't really anything I can do about that, but what if I can show you how to afford my program at full my standard price without it costing your any more than your allotted budget?" Of course you are now in control, they will likely say sure and you know you can offer 4 or 5 ways or more that this can be done. This is just one example of other possible solutions, rather than it being just black and white - settle for a lesser price or turn down the gig.

This whole topic can go much deeper than currently being discussed.

The problem here is that there are lots of ways to do things. As Lou pointed out (And I SERIOUSLY hope he does a video blog on it because it makes SO MUCH SENSE!!!) there is value in being flexible. As Mindpro points out you can still get things done and get your price in a different way. You can do much more than just turn it down based on some fictitious idea that hopefully you can get a higher priced gig later from that same person.

If people finding you online do not see your value that again is YOUR FAULT not theirs. Your online presence does not dictate that you are worth what it is you are priced at.

And if they have the budget in the future, and you let another magician develop that relationship, you have lost a TON of money as Lou points out. You never ever know. Sitting home feeding your ego with "oh I am an X$ per gig show does you very little good and as a matter of fact will do you tremendous harm.

Now obviously you are never going to change your mindset. That is cool. Don't. I am more speaking to the guys in the same position with open minds that don't want to keep making the same mistakes.

HHemmm... Again, I never said don't be flexible, nor did I say it is strictly a full rate or no show mentality. In fact in my other post I specifically give an example where I'd take a lower paying show. There's no denying that work vs no work, it is always better to work... BUT, just like everything in life, there will be exceptions. To me, if a show is WAY below your bottom-line, with no clear sign that it will lead to other higher paying shows, in my opinion, it is better turn it down. Let's give a random example of someone looking for a children bday party magician at $70. It can be potentially more damaging to take it, as well as lowering the expectation for your market in the future.

But to go even deeper, I do agree that there are tactful ways to deal with negotiating for shows with lower budget while maintaining your value.

This is your first post. Encouraging people to stay the course. We can only go by your words.
You say it is better to let someone else do the show. Your advice is not something I would remotely recommend. Now you want to try to change what it is you said. It is no big deal. Do what you like. Just don't think many will agree.

Yes I did say stay the course, but just a sentence above, I say "If you give in and lower your price by a lot, you are now forever STUCK in that price range with that client."
For some reason you seem to ignore that important information: "lowering your price by a lot"

Its ok if you don't agree that sometimes it is better to let someone else do the show if that person comes in way below your rate.
But on the flip side, I also can't recommend slashing your price because someone else bid low, and we should now match his price just to pick up a client.
Hope this time I made myself clear?

Nash, shame on you for not doing those fifty dollar shows.

Seriously, I understand what you are saying. Certainly you can’t discount all your shows, and you have every right to charge what you please.
There is nothing wrong with saying no. But still, I see no reason you would be ‘stuck’ if you make it clear up front this is a first time
buyer discount. Or a special onetime only sale. It’s all in how you explain it to the prospect.

Sure you need to draw a line to just how low you will go, but don't get tunnel vision with prices and miss some good opportunities to better
your business.

Tom