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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Are we over Derren Brown? (36 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chaz93
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I'm curious as to why so many of the replies have to do with laymans perspective or anything of that nature. None of that is in question. It seems some of the replies didn't even bother to read the original question and instead insist on defending poor mr brown and getting all huffy.

However, this has only been two pages of that where in the past it would have surely been much more by now.

It seems to me, from my observation, that as a whole penny for your thoughts is over Derren Brown.

Now, back to whatever the hell debate you guys are having off to the side.
MagicalEducator
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On Feb 15, 2016, IAIN wrote:
If you think it isn't a serious medium, fair enough..but it doesn't make it so 💃


Just listened to Eugene Burger on a Podcast and he refers to Internet/YouTube magic as something that we need to embrace. Things are never going to believe the way they were. New performers will either evolve or get left behind. I think what IAIN is saying is that he disagrees with you...as does Derren, as does Eugene and as do I. I look at the work of artists such as Marco Tempest and see hints of the future if magic. Just because you say it doesn't automatically make it so.

Jeff
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Tim Cavendish
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Quote:
On Feb 15, 2016, Chaz93 wrote:
However, this has only been two pages of that where in the past it would have surely been much more by now.

It seems to me, from my observation, that as a whole penny for your thoughts is over Derren Brown.

An alternative reading of the situation is that many folks simply dismissed the question as pointless and/or empty posturing.
C.J.
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2016, Tim Cavendish wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 15, 2016, Chaz93 wrote:
However, this has only been two pages of that where in the past it would have surely been much more by now.

It seems to me, from my observation, that as a whole penny for your thoughts is over Derren Brown.

An alternative reading of the situation is that many folks simply dismissed the question as pointless and/or empty posturing.


Yes.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Be fondly remembered.
mindpunisher
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On Feb 13, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 13, 2016, Mindpro wrote:
So what, that means no one can have an preference or opinion?


No problem having a preference or opinion it's just the way that one shares it. One can do this with some dignity and respect. I also agree that Mr. Brown might be too high brow for a reality TV world that can only deal with catering to the lowest common denominator.

Jeff


Again I found his TV shows not so much high brow as genuinely boring. If you found them high brow and enjoyed them then I respect your point of view. If you want to worship an entertainer then again that's good for you. This thread has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. I didn't think his shows were that clever I found them a bit pointless and contrived. But I will ignore your insult that anyone who didn't share your enthusiasm was the lowest common denominator. I think the disrespect is coming from you? You do know what "projection" is? As I repeat I LOVED his first two series after that it went way down hill for me personally. Its called an opinion.
mindpunisher
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I also think it makes no difference to Derren what we think hes carved out a great career for himself no matter how you look at it. And has also provided some great moments on TV. Good for him I'm pleased he has done so well. And may he go on for many years.
MagicalEducator
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I don't feel like I'm worshipping Derren Brown but rather trying to show some respect for his work and career. It would be lovely if others would consider this as well. Penny would be a happier place I should think. This is why I choose to avoid descriptions like "boring" or "contrived" when referring to someone who most would acknowledge as a huge success in the field. Your opinion is different and as a "serious mentalist" you have the right share your opinions how you choose. I think my comment about LCD TV is self explanatory and so I would rather sit through a more artistic presentation rather than something that I would find quite mind punishing as reality TV. I'm not clear why you'd find that insulting as I'm only sharing my opinion. As for "projecting" I should think that the amateur psychology is best left elsewhere. I'm sorry I seem to have made you so angry about this but words on a page don't always convey a person's full meaning. Recently I've done some reading on how to relax and not let things bother me so much. I've heard mind revitalizing can be a powerful thing but I find quite a bit of this as mostly unscientific hokum.

jeff
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Ashton
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Quote:
On Feb 17, 2016, mindpunisher wrote:
I also think it makes no difference to Derren what we think hes carved out a great career for himself no matter how you look at it. And has also provided some great moments on TV. Good for him I'm pleased he has done so well. And may he go on for many years.


Mindpunisher, I agree with you. Derren is one of the greatest mentalists of our time, and has built a very successful career. He's someone I admire a lot. As you say, may he continue performing for many years, if that's what he chooses. Like Kreskin, Derren probably could continue on for decades.
Mindpro
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I agree with Mindpunisher and the others as well. Let's get back to the proper perspective and point here. This thread was started by the OP asking about US here at the Café, not how the public or lay audience feel about Derren.

Derren's popularity over there has never been disputed. He is well-received, loved and successful, we get it. The point is here at The Magic Café he brought an entire new breed of European followers, some worshipers, groupies and fanatics to the Café which for a while were quite vocal, clique-ish, at times bullying, and very aggressive in their support of Derren and more so towards anyone who didn't share their belief.

To me it greatly damaged and changed what Penney For Your Thoughts used to be. Larger name and well-estabished mentalists were driven away by this "gang" or "mob" of worshipers, never to return and never to have Penney return to what it once was.

So the question was more about, has this passed or died down? Is the fervor over?

Derren has never been that huge here in the states (remember the Café is an American-based board). For some reason that seems to offend his staunch supporters, but it is the reality. The U.S. public hardley knows about his, except for those in our community or the kids that may have found him on youtube (you can always tell who they are when they come here asking for "how can I do what Derren did?"

But there are many here in our community in the states that also don't care much for Derren. It's not a diss towards him or his supporters here, just simply a point. I was part of a decent-sized group at Mindventiona a few years ago talking about this and the negative affects he had in some aspects to our community.

Then there are the guys here that feel he started as a "mentalist" which is what got him recognized, established and famous, but had drifted or shifted from that to more of a "personality" or "entertainer" in a different direction. Not a bad thing, just something most have noticed and seem to prefer the original.

I for one am glad the craziness has subsided from Penney, but it seems it has changed the forum and left and permanent impact. You can now tell the UK guys more easily because anytime anyone offers an unfavorable or unpopular opinion of him they chime in immediately all defensive and slinging. Not all, but there are still some that do and won't seem to let it go.

The point is Derren has achieved superstar status. It is different, he is different. To the audience it is also different. In the beginning it was amazing new and fresh. Now, while he is still quite talented and popular, I don't think he plays as strong and amazing as originally for a variety of reasons. He's changed and the pubic has now been exposed to him and has expectations.

It is part of evolution and fame in entertainment. Nothing against Derren.

For years I worked with a comedian named Dan Whitney. He was a good and enterprising comedian working the comedy club circuit in the U.S. He did quite well for himself. Like Derren, he was driven and wanted more, something bigger. Long story short he did a character in his act the became popular - Larry The Cable Guy, a blue-collar able T.V. installer. He started doing radio appearances as that character and longer segments in his show due to the gaining recognition, buzz and popularity. Everyone here in the states now knows how huge Larry The Cable guy has become. One of the most profitable and successful comedians of all-time.

Unlike Derren though who I feel has changed (some will say progressed or evolved), Larry has stayed true to his formula and character. He knows his audience, knows what they want, knows what they will accept, knows they are the reason for his success, and knows straying from it and them could be suicide. Derren is much the same but has chosen to evolve form what originally mad him famous and well-accepted. Some like it and are with him and support him. Seems over there his audience, according to those here, say he's still as popular and strong to audiences. I do think here in our community where we look at this through different glasses we notice the change and shift more than the lay public.

Also just like Larry The Cable Guy wouldn't play well as he is in the UK, Derren hasn't fared well here. Not an insult to either just a observation based in fact.

I think his impact on the Café has been established. I think he;s greatly responsible for the strong UK presence of members here at he Café. I think in many ways he's responsible for many of the mentalism vs. magic issues we discuss here on the Café. If Derren did some sponge bunny routine in his show, all of a sudden many here would say "well Derren does it, and quite well might I add, so yes,, it's fine to do magic in a mentalism show."

As I said in my original post, and it was nothing against Derren, but rather more a statement to Penney getting back to a more normal state, yes, I hope the Derren craziness here has passed. There is and has always been so much more to mentalisn than Derren Brown. Very few ever discuss the gyus here that deserve much more space and our time & attention - Hilford, Bernstein, Karmilovich, Johnson, Salem, Becker, Earle, Banacheck, Maue, Weber, Osterlind, and so on. These were the guys blown off the table by the Derren breeze. For this and other reasons, yes, I hope the Derrn craze has passed and comes down to a respectable level rather than the domination factor that had changed Penney.
IAIN
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I see it as you can only really rave about those you can experience live, but in a non-lecture way...

So I think its natural for people to become a fan-boy, because they are excited by it all, its new and fresh in their eyes...

Maybe with modern tech, more mentalists can release their show in some format or other...i think that would be great...ive seen docc and banachek lecture and perform, but that's different to a real show obviously...
I've asked to be banned
mindpunisher
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On Feb 18, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:
I don't feel like I'm worshipping Derren Brown but rather trying to show some respect for his work and career. It would be lovely if others would consider this as well. Penny would be a happier place I should think. This is why I choose to avoid descriptions like "boring" or "contrived" when referring to someone who most would acknowledge as a huge success in the field. Your opinion is different and as a "serious mentalist" you have the right share your opinions how you choose. I think my comment about LCD TV is self explanatory and so I would rather sit through a more artistic presentation rather than something that I would find quite mind punishing as reality TV. I'm not clear why you'd find that insulting as I'm only sharing my opinion. As for "projecting" I should think that the amateur psychology is best left elsewhere. I'm sorry I seem to have made you so angry about this but words on a page don't always convey a person's full meaning. Recently I've done some reading on how to relax and not let things bother me so much. I've heard mind revitalizing can be a powerful thing but I find quite a bit of this as mostly unscientific hokum.

jeff


Then start a thread called "showing respect for Derren Brown" because this wasn't what this thread is about. You obviously don't understand what projection is because it is YOU that is showing disrespect for the posters here. And I've been using "amateur psychology" PROFESSIONALLY for nearly 30 years. I can't honestly think of any other words other than pointless boring or contrived for the majority of post series 2 TV shows put out by Derren. I found them PAINFUL. I am just giving you my honest opinion sorry you don't like it. But saying anyone who doesn't agree with you or enjoy those awful dreary shows is the common denominator is in fact an insult. And if you are refering to a couple of MP3s I made available to the Café for those suffering from stage fright then I hate to tell you they work. And are just basic hypnotherapy recordings. And they helped the few people who got them. And they have helped dozens of coaching clients in the past. But of course you are entitled to your point of view and I respect that. Shame you don't seem to be able to do the same. Maybe you just have one of those personalities that needs to worship someone.In which case I feel your pain. But its kind of self inflicted. Maybe you should just let it go and accept the reality that not everybody shares your views that way life will might get better for you.
MagicalEducator
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I think your first line sums it up when you say that this thread isn't about showing respect for Derren Brown. You don't and of course you completely miss the point. It doesn't matter to me that you don't care for his work I'm just suggesting that you might consider doing it a different more grown up way. I note that you don't seem to acknowledge this other than to stay you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't say that anyone that doesn't like Derren is LCD. This is your position and not mine. My position is that most TV is LCD. I find it interesting that you're willing to go off on anyone else and call it "opinion" but when there's a veiled reference to anything you're involved with then things become very different. Thanks for proving my point. I'm glad that your work helped folks with their issues although it does sound like it wasn't "statistically significant."

I also appreciate your professional concern for my well being but I'm managing just fine. I'm not entirely clear why you ask for people to be respectful to you but don't do it with others. Unfortunately you're not alone in this practice. There are a couple others in Penny that have very strong opinions and don't appear to like it when people don't agree with them. These are the folks who've made an extremely great number of posts. If you'd like to discuss and debate Derren's work I'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts. If on the other hand you'd like to practice amateur psychology via the internet then we will continue to disagree.

jeff
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bobgill
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Why do we in the so-called 'fraternity' delight in attacking our heroes?

We should be celebrating the influence DB has on 'magic/mentalism' both on TV and stage - it's no coincidence that the unprecedented rise in mentalism over the last 20 years has occurred after Derren first made his mark. He created a market for so many, who are more than happy to take the work and pursue his pseudo-scientific approach. As the live talent show judges love to say: he owns the genre.

In the UK at least, Derren has redefined how 'mentalism' is performed live and on television, bringing a hammy, forehead-clutching art form up to date, making it interesting, challenging and a water cooler talking point. He has had an impact (here, not in the US) bigger than Uri Geller, who is now viewed as little more than a joke media figure, his amazing early impact all but forgotten. No so-called mentalist has had this sustained level of impact on the UK public before.

Even if you don't understand TV, surely you'll appreciate that he can't simply keep repeating the positioning of his past. The 'stunts' and pseudo-documentaries are an essential approach to keeping himself fresh and appealing to the public. The alternative is to go the way of Paul Daniels, when even with his ingenuity you simply run out of momentum after 20 years on TV. That hasn't stopped PD continuing to enjoy a buoyant live career decades after he stopped doing regular TV. That's absolutely no reflection on the scale of PD's achievement - just the inevitability of a narrow art form being unsustainable on TV over a long period.

One of the huge barriers to 'mentalism' being a commercially viable form of entertainment is that it is inherently limited in the scope of what it offers. Mentalists are even worse than magicians in all performing the same limited genre of effects, in a similar way (and incidentally in a very DB way).

Derren is, if nothing else, Good For Business, and still has decades ahead of him in which to reinvent himself. Last time I checked, his live tours in the UK are sold out.

Derren Brown is, lest we forget, aged 45.
Mark_Chandaue
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On Mar 2, 2016, bobgill wrote:
In the UK at least, Derren has redefined how 'mentalism' is performed live and on television, bringing a hammy, forehead-clutching art form up to date


I happen to like it s a hammy, forehead clutching art form. Well technically I don't clutch my head but I am a traditionalist rather than a pseudo scientific body language reader. Yes I love Derren as a performer and will be going to see miracle in a couple of weeks, had to go mid-week because the whole run is pretty much sold out so clearly his popularity is not waning. However I have no desire to emulate him, nor could I if I wanted to.

Mark
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r1chyoung
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You can listen to Derren Brown talking about his incredible work in a free 2 hour podcast here:

http://magicianspodcast.podbean.com

There are also 70 other podcasts on the feed for you to enjoy with other mentalists such as Luke Jermay, David Berglas, Andy Nyman and Marc Paul right now too.

I hope you enjoy it.

Best wishes

Richard Young

Creator & Host of The Magicians' Podcast
Thanks, Richard
Sean Giles
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I always listen to this podcast. There was a good one with Paul Daniels before his death and a nice one with the lovely Debbie McGee after. It's great to see Derren on.
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Just happened to have a thought about the fact that he (in my experience at least) has NEVER made any mistake either planned or by accident.
Isn't this weird?
robwar0100
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Derren Brown's Penguin lecture was a turning point for me. That lecture, along with Andy Nyman and Luke Jermay, gave me the sense Derren was the showman and others were the creative minds. I could be wrong, but that is how it seemed to me.

Bobby
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Sean Giles
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On Sep 10, 2016, robwar0100 wrote:
Derren Brown's Penguin lecture was a turning point for me. That lecture, along with Andy Nyman and Luke Jermay, gave me the sense Derren was the showman and others were the creative minds. I could be wrong, but that is how it seemed to me.

Bobby

If you read Pure Effect it may change your view.
AttnPls
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Great shows usually grow out of strong creative collaboration. I believe that Derren Brown is an excellent showman and great artist. He has put more thought and creativity into his art and craft than 99.9% of magicians. Read any of his books if you have any doubt. Mentalists today have little idea how much of the current material and way of performing mentalism was actually created by Derren Brown.

Certainly his commercial success would not have happened without the excellent work of a very talented team. I do hear Andy Nyman's voice and sense of emotional drama in Derren's performances, but Derren's acting ability and showmanship is unparalleled. The collaboration has produces some great work.

Mystery performers seem to generally be a very solitary group artistically. This has never made any sense to me.

I have written and directed shows for others performers and would LOVE more than anything to find an "Andy Nyman" to work with me on my show!

In fact, I am currently seeking a director for my show in Washington, DC. It's almost impossible to find somebody. Please let me know if you know of anyone!
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