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rowdymagi5
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I vote for a stronger military. More money for the military.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
As is looking at complex problems through a simple lense.


I should go into mentalism.

Most problems have relatively simple solutions. When thinking about the problems this country faces, I think that most of them come down to money.

Do you, Danny, think that a lot of the money would be better spent on fixing the problems we face here?

Do you, Danny, think our leaders make decisions with the aim of doing what's best for all Americans, or do they think of their own desires?

Do you, Danny, think that if the military budget were reduced by 1/3, and the rest put towards, say, education, would we be less safe?

Do you, Danny, think this country is getting stronger, or weaker?

Do you, Danny, think we need more soldiers and weapons, or more teachers?

Do you, Danny, think we, who spend more than the next 15 countries COMBINED, could reduce military spending and use the money to shore up our vulnerable infrastructure?

Those are just a few questions.

As I said I should go into mentalism. I predict that you will answer none of them, and will instead make a snarky remark, offering nothing to the conversation, and say something to the effect of "why bother to have any conversations, about anything, since there are multiple viewpoints."
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, rowdymagi5 wrote:
I vote for a stronger military. More money for the military.


Why?

For what?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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"mind our own business" was discussed back around turn of last century. The decision then was to treat some geographically remote matters as national interests and "carry a big stick".

If you'd like to add to the discussion...please do.

Take away funding allocated to non- active military personnel and their operational needs and there'd be lots of entitled folks feeling betrayed. Also look at interest on debt.

Tired toothless polemics, dead stalking horses, an apathetic readership, and one guy who's just read volume one of Mein Kamph.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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@twister, we've got an unproductive situation for our moral position and an unproductive topic over foreign policy which neither of us control. Where do you see a path toward less disgusting outcomes?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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All the spelling errors sorry.

Point is you do not have nearly all the information of foreign policy. So to make any claim is dubious at best and just flat out disingenuous. It is just toy putting forth an incredibly uninformed opinion.

Are people sitting around and suddenly our actions make them killers? As laughable As it is naive.

It is convenient for you to pretend there is a simple solution. But if you claim no lives have been saved you aee blind or just not seeing on purpose.
So how many lives have we saved?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Ok...reset.

No, I don't have all the info into the inner workings of the government, and neither do any of you.

Of course I'm not saying to dismantle the military, nor am I denigrating those who have served.
I'm saying that maybe we should look at the way it is being used, and how much it costs both in dollars and lives.

Have lives been saved? Of course, but how many lives have been lost, or put at risk due to our actions?

Are the solutions simple? No, but the end goal can be stated simply - to spend the tax dollars collected to do what's best for ALL the people in this country.

When I look at what's been done in recent history, and the direction we're going, I don't see what we're doing as being effective, now or in the long run.

We've been fighting terrorism for decades and the problem is worse than it ever was. Why?

TRILLIONS of dollars and thousands of lives in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and now Syria and we're no closer to a conclusion. We supposedly squash one cockroach only to find that the killing of it gives birth to others, which we then have to go fight, always being told that this new roach is an imminent threat.

Is it so wrong to ask what have we gotten?

If the goal is to ensure the well being and prosperity of those in this country, is it so wrong to ask whether we would be better off spending some of the money to deal OUR problems?

A crumbling, vulnerable infrastructure, racism, income inequality, a broken education system, the list goes on and on and on. Wouldn't we be better off reducing the money we spend on more weapons, that we don't need since we already have more than everyone else combined, on solving OUR problems?
Why does it seem that the only course of action is more of what doesn't seem to be working?

My position is that more than any group of people, we are fighting an ideology - a thought process - and that you can't bomb it out of existence. No amount of guns, bombs or troops can force a person to think differently. I suppose you can scorch the earth and eliminate all those who hold that ideology, but is that what America suddenly stands for?
It's an ideology that says that anyone who doesn't agree with it must be eliminated, or converted. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the more moderate of those that hold the same ideology don't hold the root of it in their minds.

I've had, probably hundreds, of conversations with moderate Muslims, those who really don't want to hurt anyone, and like us, just want to live their lives. Everyone of them, men and women alike, ALL have said they would see global sharia as being good and right.
Why? Because their holy texts say it is what should be.

So tell me, how do you bomb such a mindset out of existence, and if you can't tell me how, tell me how continuing to bomb them is going to help?

They hate us because what we, supposedly, stand for is diametrically opposed to their ideology. Like all ideologies based on the irrational it has fractured and various factions hate each other as much, or more, than they hate us.

In other words it's not just us versus them, but THEM versus them. So let's get out of the way, as much as is practical, and let them kill each other.
(And no, I don't care about them nearly as much as I care about us.)

So why is it so wrong to propose that we minimize our military involvement, and use the money saved to deal with our issues?
(Never mind the fact that we essentially have to borrow the money from uneasy allies just to function)

Does it make me un-American to say that we are better off spending any random million on 15-20 desperately needed teachers instead of throwing another bomb on an already gargantuan pile?

Does it make me un-American to say that we should think of America, and it's problems first, and above ALL others?
(Please spare me the "global society" talking point. A global society would require, by default, a global ideology and we don't have anything resembling that.)

Does it make me un-American to say that it's not our place to solve the problems of the rest of the world?
(I know..but what about the CHILDREN? Well what about OUR children?)

Is it treasonous to ask whether our massively corrupt, so-called leaders, are not only incompetent, but that they don't consider US first when making policy, and instead are concerned with serving those who have paid for them to be in power?
(You know, the weapons manufacturers, oil companies, and the like.)

Is it illogical to posit that perhaps a half a TRILLION borrowed dollars a year is enough to sustain our already bloated military, and that the other half a TRILLION could go a long way towards fixing what is broken here?

Is it wrong to ask, given the evidence of my senses when thinking about the current state of affairs, if things are improving for us AMERICANS, or if they are getting worse, and why?

I could go on but that is enough for now.

So, I apologize to any here that I've attacked. It was childish and unproductive. And no, I don't think that ANY conversation, on ANY internet forum, will end up shaping policy, but these are conversations that need to be had.
If we've reached a point where we feel that such conversations are pointless then we've already lost.

However, the questions stand, for anyone to address, like adults, without rancor, or any intention of trolling (really?)
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
RNK
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:


In other words it's not just us versus them, but THEM versus them. So let's get out of the way, as much as is practical, and let them kill each other.
(And no, I don't care about them nearly as much as I care about us.)



No. It's not THEM versus THEM. They have publically stated they want to wipe out Western civilization. If you quit going after them it only allows them to get stronger and move towards their goal of a complete caliphate and an end to western civilization.
Devious
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I can personally attest to
our military being bloated.
Devious Deceptions
"Gadol Elohai!"
L'Chaim!
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:


In other words it's not just us versus them, but THEM versus them. So let's get out of the way, as much as is practical, and let them kill each other.
(And no, I don't care about them nearly as much as I care about us.)




No. It's not THEM versus THEM. They have publically stated they want to wipe out Western civilization. If you quit going after them it only allows them to get stronger and move towards their goal of a complete caliphate and an end to western civilization.


It's both.

Sunni and Shia are both factions of Islam and they hate each other based on their differing interpretations of the holy texts.
If left alone they will kill each other, as they have.

I say let them.

I ask you, honestly, what is our ultimate goal militarily, if, as I said, we're fighting an ideology?

The elimination of Islam?

And what about the rest of what I wrote?
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Dannydoyle
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So now ALREADY in just a few posts the problem is not simple. Wow go figure.

Trying to impose a simple solution to a complex problem is a major mistake and you know it. You "feel" this is wrong and you want to act upon your "feelings". Sorry. Life does not work according to your feelings. So now the military has saved lives. It is just that you care more for OUR lives than THEIR lives. Hmmm. OK that speaks for itself.

How many lives have been saved? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Should we just cut off all aid as well to other countries? That will give us LOTS of money to spend at home huh?

Like I said a simple solution to a VERY complex problem is most often worse than the complex solution. Or NO solution which is really your proposal.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, Devious wrote:
I can personally attest to
our military being bloated.


So, having your unique perspective, do you think that perhaps we should question the wisdom of insisting that more and more is necessary?

Also, if you don't mind, do you think that there is a military solution to the problem of terrorism?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dannydoyle
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Do you believe if we just leave there will be no problems in the world? America is the problem, not anyone killing kids on purpose. But since those are not our kids you don't care as much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
So now ALREADY in just a few posts the problem is not simple. Wow go figure.

Trying to impose a simple solution to a complex problem is a major mistake and you know it. You "feel" this is wrong and you want to act upon your "feelings". Sorry. Life does not work according to your feelings. So now the military has saved lives. It is just that you care more for OUR lives than THEIR lives. Hmmm. OK that speaks for itself.

How many lives have been saved? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Should we just cut off all aid as well to other countries? That will give us LOTS of money to spend at home huh?

Like I said a simple solution to a VERY complex problem is most often worse than the complex solution. Or NO solution which is really your proposal.


I never said it was a simple problem, or that the solution is simple.
You said that I said that.

I never said that everything we've done is wrong.

The fact that you insist that it's what I said does not make it true.

All that I've done it's point out that we're not innocent in this and that there are other ways to think about it.

I never said I have all the answers. I just have an opinion about what I see, and don't agree with, and I state the reasons why, which is far more than you EVER do.

I don't know why you're so angry all the time Danny, and frankly I don't care.

All you do is attack me for having an opinion.

Very adult of you.

I could ask you why you never really address any question or point, but then you'll say that I'm interrogating you, so whatever.

And you have the audacity to insinuate that I'M the troll.

Get a grip, get your pressure checked and have a nice life.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
magicalaurie
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Dannydoyle
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Calling me angry doesn't make it so. Your posts come off as quite angry. You are always railing against something you think is foolish as in your first post.

The solution you propose is simple. You are the angry one here. Perhaps check your blood pressure LOL.

What positiondonyou want me to take? That the military is bloated? OK it is. That there is waste in any significantly large organization? OK there is. Should I say America is the problem like you seem to think? Nope.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Devious
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With all due respect Mr Doyle, what branch did you serve
in our military sir?
Devious Deceptions
"Gadol Elohai!"
L'Chaim!
Jonathan Townsend
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Thing is, as a citizen taxpayer without the fun of "license" to imagine doing a job making things better... mostly hearing about the latest SNAFU that will haunt us all in a couple of weeks.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
acesover
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Quote:
On Jan 17, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 17, 2016, Kevin Connolly wrote:
I quickly scanned it and the one about the 220,000 teachers is not true. Nice headline, but a lie.


And the rest?

What about the overall impact, and the results?

Even if it was only ten teachers, what would be the better way to spend the money for America?


Get those teachers to work a 40 hour week 45 weeks a year would be a good start.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2016, Devious wrote:
With all due respect Mr Doyle, what branch did you serve
in our military sir?


None. Which branch did I claim to serve in?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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