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Dannydoyle
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I had assumed some creature a bit more feral.

But certainly if his propensity was to hurt and kill the other animals this would not be allowed. Ah ha rules.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RNK
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Quote:
On Mar 18, 2016, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 18, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 18, 2016, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 18, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 16, 2016, R.S. wrote:

North Korea developed it's first nuke in 2006. Apparently you weren't aware of that. And by the way, what did the administration at the time do about it (or to prevent it)??

Ron



Sounds about right. Perhaps it was too late for the then-current administration to do anything about it, as the previous administration had made North Korea the largest Asian recipient of foreign aid during its 8 years.



From 1995 - 2000, we gave $771.2 million in aid to NK (Energy assistance plus medical aid). In 2001, Bush takes office, labels NK part of the "axis of evil", and NK is 5 1/2 years away from detonating their very first nuclear device. Yet from 2001 to 2005, we STILL gave $343.75 million in aid to NK! In 2006, the year NK detonated their first nuke, we gave $0. Then from 2007 through 2008, we gave yet another $269.80 million in aid!! Also, food aid to NK peaked in 2002. So tell me again how all of this is the responsibility of the President who was out of office for over 5 1/2 years before NK detonated it's first nuke?

Ron


How much do you know about the timeframe of nuclear weapons development?



Enough. And what do YOU propose we do about countries that use rhetoric we don't like?

Ron



I propose we don't give them 150 billion dollars. I believe if you think you now can trust Iran to do the right think because we fulfilled our obligation, really? A country that is KNOWN to be funding terrorist organizations! Wow.
Dannydoyle
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I know a couple things for certain. What we have done seems to not have worked, and I Definately have NO CLUE what would.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RNK
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On Mar 21, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
I know a couple things for certain. What we have done seems to not have worked, and I Definately have NO CLUE what would.


I agree. Except for thinking that the enemy will make nice once paid.
Dannydoyle
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Where is that in my quote?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RNK
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On Mar 21, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Where is that in my quote?


It's not! I agreed with you in that I don't have a clue on what to do. But I reiterated that I know I wouldn't give them money.
Dannydoyle
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Just making certain things are not attributed to me I never said.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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But I reiterated that I know I wouldn't give them money.

Because of the policies that you supported during the Iraq War and now, placating Iran became necessary as the only power in the region that could counterbalance the Iraqi Sunni extremist forces. That is just one more reason why March 2003 was the greatest foreign policy blunder in US history with the possible exception of the escalation of the Vietnam War.
magicalaurie
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On Mar 19, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes I know you think you are being witty but you are only half right.

How about where the animals eliminate? I bet in your bed is unacceptable.



I suggest anyone who's owned cats in there lifetime has likely at one point or another had one who eliminated in their bed. Stuff happens. Acceptance doesn't mean lining up for the slaughter, Danny, it simply means one accepts the realization that we act. Consider perhaps society is imposing a fearful view of certain actions. What if we learned a different view? Read something about chimpanzees and gorillas and you might see what I'm talking about when I say animals accept what we are capable of while people choose to condemn instead. Human terms, and semantics are beside the point, I think.
Dannydoyle
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Hogwash.

Chimps have rules they follow. Very strict rules. Twist and spin anything you want it amounts to nothing. You still can't explain away animals having rules. Nice try though. Maybe more obviously nonsensical rambling will help.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RNK
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On Mar 21, 2016, landmark wrote:
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But I reiterated that I know I wouldn't give them money.

Because of the policies that you supported during the Iraq War and now, placating Iran became necessary as the only power in the region that could counterbalance the Iraqi Sunni extremist forces. That is just one more reason why March 2003 was the greatest foreign policy blunder in US history with the possible exception of the escalation of the Vietnam War.


The war to stop Suddam with his weapons of mass destruction. Yes- I did support that. So did the whole gov't including Democrats and Republicans.
magicalaurie
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It was an editing error, Danny. I don't suppose you understand that possibility, though. Or maybe you do. I saw that.
Danny, gorillas "molest" infants regularly and are accepted. Chimps commit infanticide and are allowed to remain in the group. Stuff like that goes on. You know what else goes on? Life. Because they allow it to. They don't force someone to become a "victim" and they don't force them to think they are "damaged" or unloved and they accept that we can die in a multitude of fashions. And they appreciate life in the first place and in the moment. "Rules" is a human term, used largely for convenience. Anthropocentric view tries to flip it back on Nature. I addressed that earlier. Take a look at the links I posted for a little more about that.
Dannydoyle
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So you think infant murder is OK? You think it is OK to molest kids and as a society we just look the other way?

Or was that an exciting error as well?

Try to surpass the dominance rules in a chimp family and tell me there are no rules.

Just how much behavior do we look away from? Apparently all according to you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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On Mar 21, 2016, magicalaurie wrote:
It was an editing error, Danny. I don't suppose you understand that possibility, though. Or maybe you do. I saw that.
Danny, gorillas "molest" infants regularly and are accepted. Chimps commit infanticide and are allowed to remain in the group.


This shows that other animals don't have the same rules that human beings have, but it doesn't show that they don't have rules. In fact, there ARE behaviors that will result in (non-human) animal groups ostracizing members.



"As I read and accumulated more knowledge about ostracism, I realized how pervasive it was: animals do it, all cultures do it, humans from childhood to the elderly do it."

http://ndnr.com/pain-medicine/ostracism-......clusion/



Even more striking, within this huge repertoire of prosocial behaviors, particular patterns of behavior seem to constitute a kind of animal morality. Mammals living in tight social groups appear to live according to codes of conduct, including both prohibitions against certain kinds of behavior and expectations for other kinds of behavior. They live by a set of rules that fosters a relatively harmonious and peaceful coexistence.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/041612.html
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicalaurie
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Here's someone discussing the "very strict rules" of Chimps:

Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) flexibly adjust their behaviour in order to maximize payoffs, not to conform to majorities.
Van Leeuwen EJ1, Cronin KA, Schütte S, Call J, Haun DB.
Author information
Abstract
Chimpanzees have been shown to be adept learners, both individually and socially. Yet, sometimes their conservative nature seems to hamper the flexible adoption of superior alternatives, even to the extent that they persist in using entirely ineffective strategies. In this study, we investigated chimpanzees' behavioural flexibility in two different conditions under which social animals have been predicted to abandon personal preferences and adopt alternative strategies: i) under influence of majority demonstrations (i.e. conformity), and ii) in the presence of superior reward contingencies (i.e. maximizing payoffs). Unlike previous nonhuman primate studies, this study disentangled the concept of conformity from the tendency to maintain one's first-learned strategy. Studying captive (n=16) and semi-wild (n=12) chimpanzees in two complementary exchange paradigms, we found that chimpanzees did not abandon their behaviour in order to match the majority, but instead remained faithful to their first-learned strategy (Study 1a and 1b). However, the chimpanzees' fidelity to their first-learned strategy was overridden by an experimental upgrade of the profitability of the alternative strategy (Study 2). We interpret our observations in terms of chimpanzees' relative weighing of behavioural options as a function of situation-specific trade-offs. More specifically, contrary to previous findings, chimpanzees in our study abandoned their familiar behaviour to maximize payoffs, but not to conform to a majority.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24312252

See what I said about Anthropocentrism, Lobo. Still, a key point from your last linked article(, though I dislike the good bad, better, best human framing- human common vernacular is rife with it): "However, some will tend to cope better than others. Detecting ostracism" hints at accepting the reality that ostracism is a behaviour, realizing that it happens and one doesn't have to be "injured" or endure prolonged suffering as a result of it. See my earlier linked articles.
Dannydoyle
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Yes sorry there are rules. You just can't get past that point.

But even different groups of humans have different rules. But there are rules.

Twist and spin all you like it is a truth you can't get past.

Any species in which one exerts dominance is establishing rules. It is really simple.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Read the chimp abstract again, Danny.

Your article also cites the fundamental need "of belonging", Lobo.
Dannydoyle
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Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Dannydoyle
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Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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