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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
Every once in awhile we get a post inquiring about how to get started or how to move forward in mentalism. The responses are usually---13 steps, pratical mental effects, Bob's 39 steps etc. Then a few will say once you read those, read them again. I'm just curious---especially the guys who have been in mentalism for a long time---did anyone get started the "right way"? I am not sure what the answers will be but just curious. Thank you.
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
I sure didn’t.
I was all over the place in my self study of magic in the 60s and early 70s. I was also studying card reading, numerology, and other topics that at that time, had had no idea that they were related to magic or mentalism. In 1973, with the help of Steve Matloff, I discovered several magic shops in Boston and began my weekend haunting of the same. I was drawn to the spooky stuff and would buy effects, not yet realizing there were books dedicated to specialized areas in the mystery arts. Up until that time, most books I had read were on the history of magic and magicians. The only teaching book I had was The Puffin Book of Magic (which I got from a school book club). Around 1974, I met Bob Bob Leslie, he would become my teacher and advisor in magic. He introduced me to the AMH which became my bible, and in mentalism, to Larry Becker’s works. Although my lessons were primarily in SOH, I also was directed towards memory work and Harry Lorayne’s work in both memory and magic. Bob is a maser at memory work and mathematical mysteries. In addition to Harry’s and Larry’s works, I was directed to Bobo’s book, Frank Garcia’s books, Slydini, Otocar Fischer’s Magic Without Apparatus, and the books of Walter Gibson. The only Annemann I knew about and owned was his book of forcing. In 1976/77 a magic shop opened in my home town and I worked there after school a few days a week and got to look through the books. Here I found some of the works of Nelson. This shop did not last long. In 1980, I had the pleasure to work at Little Jack Honor’s and the Magic Parlor in Boston, here I got to haunt a much bigger collection of books and materials and learned what fit me. It was at this time I discovered PME, later the JINX and 13 STEPS. I took the long way around. Tony |
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
The key to doing it the "right way" back then (80s for me) meant being there in person with those willing to pass down their knowledge. Naturally you have less opportunitites for that kind of instruction these days with all the online videos. Some may not think it makes a difference, but it makes a significant difference. Of course also reading, studying, and practicing.
All the digital stuff is fine, but there's nothing like being there in person to learn. Those willing to start out right, and anyone else for that matter, would be wise to look into attending live workshops and lectures, and if possible meeting up for lunch or coffee with those willing to pass down knowledge. This is how the real stuff gets passed down. Almost everyone who publishes stuff has much unpublished, and this unpublished stuff only gets shared in person, and I don't mean just "tricks". It was much easier to learn the goods then with all the brick and mortar stores, you'd learn a lot spending time in one, and working in one (for me The Queen of Hearts is Texas when I was 17) where many performers used to hang out for hours talking shop and sharing. Ah the good old days.... * Go to Meetings * Go to Conventions and Gatherings * Attend Live Workshops and Lectures Meet those with more experience than you and if you're serious about what you're doing, don't be shy about asking questions. If you play your cards right you might find yourself sharing a cup of coffee with one of these people and suddenly Boom! There you are, picking up knowledge in person the way it's been effectively done for thousands of years. Honestly, I don't know of a better "way".
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2016, ALEXANDRE wrote: Couldn't agree more. You were "learning" in those days rather than being self-taught or left to do so on your own as it is today. I'm curious to what you (brehaut) consider "the right way?" |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
I don't think there is a right way. I think most of the regulars on here started in a way than is different than what most of us recommend. There is something about going out and failing or going in the wrong direction that ultimately makes us better. Golf is a good example. Someone can tell you how to create the perfect swing. But in the end, hours and hours of experimenting and figuring out what works and what doesn't work makes one better. Also, by making mistakes you learn not only what doesn't work but why something doesn't work----that can be very valuable.
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signal2noise Regular user 136 Posts |
I started with 13 Steps and found it pretty dry on first read-though. I've had more success studying mentalism that way I learned to play guitar. With guitar, rather than start with scales right away, I learned a few open chords and some songs that could be played just strumming those chords. That way I could quickly play something that sounded a bit like music and would keep my interest level up. I then slowly added scales, modes, and more complex chord shapes to become a more well-rounded musician.
Applying this to mentalism I found about a half-dozen easy to learn, almost self-working effects, then went back over the classics which then made more sense to me and helped flesh things out. We do all pick up things a bit differently from others and one of the most important things one can discover is how you, yourself best learn. |
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MagicalEducator Veteran user 369 Posts |
I don't believe there is one right way to do this. From an educational standpoint the deepest learning happens by doing. This would be in conjunction with having a mentor/teacher that works with you one on one. Access (and deep study) to as much material print/electronic so that you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals. Regular video or audio recording of your rehearsal and performances. Repeat until dead.
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
www.MagicalEducator.com Check out my column "Magic is Education" in Vanish Magazine |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12945 Posts |
When I want to know something I find a way to figure it out. I'm not sure about a right or wrong way.
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The Urban Entity New user Itta Bena, MS 100 Posts |
Not sure if there is a "right way". I was a card magician. Wanted to learn something greater. I got into sideshow and geek magic. Got an interest in the paranormal, I started transitioning into mentalism. I tried copying the likes of Banachek, Osterlind, and Cassidy, and later Brown. As I grew, I started to develop. Since I always had an interest in comic books. I present myself in a comic style. I developed a "super power" not "super powers" and worked around it to give myself an origin story. Here I am.
WATCH AWESOME HYPNOSIS VIDEOS: https://www.youtube.com/user/taylormade85/example?sub_confirmation=1
"Pushing The Boundaries of What is Possible With Hypnosis" |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
I must admit that I find the posts to be interesting and surprising (and I'm not critical of the responses in anyway). Given that anyone asking for advice on how to begin the response is almost univerisal ---Anneman, 13 steps, Cassidy, etc. However, most the posts here reflect there is no right or wrong way. There is value to going your own way and failing, etc. Maybe the next person that asks about getting started will get some different responses
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Not sure it matters how you start. It's how you finish.
I had my first full time magic show in May of 1990. I spent the previous three years (1987-90) doing magic shows everywhere I could get one. I also was lucky enough to be "sort of" mentored by a semi-retired magician who ran a magic shop. I considered these three years as my "University Course" in performing magic. I did these shows at no charge to the client and asked only for a reference letter -- which I used when I went pro. I did comedy magic for corporations for nearly 20 years. I was smitten by mentalism in 2008 after seeing some material by Osterlind and slowly transitioned out of magic and into full time mentalism...and have been doing mentalism since then. It has been a beautiful ride. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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jerdunn Inner circle 1735 Posts |
Like most of us, I started with magic and was lucky enough to know great close-up magicians like Jim Lewis and Earl Nelson, who taught and corrected me.
Mentalism started a couple of decades ago with a lecture by Larry Becker. Larry's stuff was pretty easy to do, entertaining to present, and pretty much bombproof. Sneak Thief and Flashback would be examples. Later I started learning classic stuff like center tears, peeks, and so on. Then in 2008 I discovered Craig F and saw that electronic stuff could be both amazing and reliable. Was this the "right way"? For me, yes. The right way is any way that makes you fall in love with something and pursue it happily and according to your own lights. Cheers, Jerry |
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StevenScott New user 42 Posts |
HI all. Long time lurker first time poster here. I did in fact start with "Practical Mental effects". I was really only into magic not all of that "mind reaaing" stuff. Then one day, just on a whim and because the opportunity presented itself I used the old criss cross force to predict a tarot card a lady would select. I actually could not believe the reaction I got. It was way out of proportion to what I just performed. I quickly ran out and picked up Annemans book, studied it, and never went back to sponge balls. Then I went through the 13 step program.
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 11, 2016, StevenScott wrote: Great post ! Thanks for sharing |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I had different mentors and experiences. The "right way" is to learn audience engagement, presence, voice control and empathic listening skills.
In a particular setting/audience you should be prepared to do mental based magic, physical based magic, tell a magical story or do nothing at all. It is sad for me that so many seem to think one should be focused on only one way of relating to an audience and fiddling with their concept of the impossible. What is the expectation of the audience? What is the story told after? ........ However, I accept that the question is shadowed by the idea, "How to make a living entertaining people in a special way." For that you must forget whatever motivations got you into the mystical arts in the first place and focus on what an audience will pay for. If you feel that you must focus on one type of audience, then study what that audience expects and how to attract them to your show. As to how best to acquire the skills necessary -- there is plenty of good advice above. The only "mind set" required is the ability to commit yourself to the work necessary to refine ALL of the skills necessary -- to include ending each day asking, "What did I learn today that will make me a better performer tomorrow?" "Right thinking" rather than "right way."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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bbarefoot Regular user Johnstown, PA 122 Posts |
I started out performing magic pretty young. One of my first shows, was in 4th grade, we did a reading segment on magic, and as a result of that, I got the opportunity to perform regularly for my class. I lived pretty cut off from the magic community for quite a long time. I did not know about any clubs and I certainly did not know any other performers. I just searched for books and sat alone in my room reading for hours on end. I was fortunate to get some great books early on, some of which I did not learn to appreciate how rare or unique they were until much later. For me, there was nothing better than sitting down and just reading a magic book cover to cover, notate the tricks I wanted to learn later, and working through the ones that made me stop reading because they sounded so great. I was about 14 when I got my first copy of PMM, and I found it dull and hard to read. Looking back, I think this was because it was hard to perform the effects for myself. I could do the basic moves, but I had trouble finding them entertaining for myself. So I put away with another book that I had the same issue with, 13 Steps.
Finally, when I went away to college, and started performing there, I found myself with a new audience. I learned, also, that they were not as polite as my audiences had been previously. Now, I had to build my act to entertain others and not just myself, so a lot of my fancy multi-step card tricks were gone. Also, any tricks that required a lot of complexity had to be removed, because drunk college students can't focus that long. I needed things that didn't require a lot of talking, and I wanted things that garnered a huge reaction. This led me down two paths, that for a while ran parallel. I performed more bizarre/geek style effects and mind reading effects. Some will not agree, but ash to arm card prediction was my first mentalist style presentation. Or at least, the gateway effect for me. While I was going through this time of restructuring my whole thinking of magic and trying to locate new material, Derren Brown appeared in the US. Here was this British guy doing all kinds of things I had never seen or heard of, and instantly, I knew he obviously had special powers. I wanted to do magic like him. Then I decided he was only able to do what he did because of his accent. Somehow, the British accent made Americans susceptible to his influence. So, I decided, I had to move somewhere where my accent would provide that same allure. Since that wasn't reasonable, I instead started to read up and study what I could, locate local clubs and performers and along the way, I picked up Pentalogy, Magic and Showmanship, the Amateur Magician's Handbook, and Sleight of Mind. Then I learned, it wasn't magic I was looking for, but that there was this much more secret world that appeared deep inside or alongside magic known as Mentalism. This realization gave me many more sources to seek out that led me to the works of Luke Jermay and Banachek. From here, I picked up a few other books and DVDs, but they all kept pointing me back to PMM and to 13 Steps. So, I put aside my previous experience with those books, dusted them off and tried again. I found that once I had some experience performing and understood more about what my personal goals were, that these two books suddenly became much more valuable to me. Reading this thread has been very valuable to me. It has allowed me to the chance to really think about my beginnings a little more, and really ponder if the "right way" that is often given, sometimes by me, as advice for beginners is in fact the right way. As I read through the posts, to me it seems like the right way becomes the right way in hindsight only. I think the very first step should be self discovery and experimentation. Figure out what you like and what you want to show others. Find one effect that you really connect with. Then, perform. I repeat, PERFORM. Take notes about what worked with the effect and what didn't work. Make adjustments based on those notes, research how to improve it and keep going. Then repeat that whole process. At some point the process will lead you to PMM and 13 Steps, and several other works that may only be right for you. Pull one thread at a time, and let things unravel at your own pace. Soon you will open up a whole new world. For me, a window is opening, but I am just working on crawling through it. And, the more I unravel, the more I feel that may always be the case. With that, I am reminded of a story where a Mentalist asked Max Maven for advice about Mentalism, and Max replied with, "Read everything." All the best, Brad |
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 11, 2016, bbarefoot wrote: Awesome post! Especially love your insight in the last two paragraphs |
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bbarefoot Regular user Johnstown, PA 122 Posts |
Thank you Brehaut!
Signal2noise, David, and your posts really helped me in collecting my thoughts together into something that was, hopefully, only partially rambling. I am glad my thoughts were liked. All the best, Brad |
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Zee Regular user Leonia, NJ 196 Posts |
Fun Fact: A lot of amateur magicians/mentalists in Korea actually starts to learn stuff in a "right way". When they are starting, they read 13 steps for mentalism and Royal Road to Card Magic or Card College for card magic.
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Terry Holley Inner circle 1805 Posts |
I'm not sure this was the "right way" but it worked for me!
My serious interest in magic began around 1966. I was 14 years old. I auditioned for a theme park in 1970 with a "straight" magic act and didn't get the job as I was beat out by another magician. Shortly after that discouragement I saw Kreskin on a local TV program. He presented either Brainwave or Invisible Deck and the audience was stunned! I thought, "Now that would be an act that would amaze the theme park visitors." I contacted Robert Nelson Enterprises, placed a few orders for books and effects and studied and practiced for the next several months. In 1971 I auditioned for the theme park again, but this time with a mentalism performance, and won the job. I performed over 500 shows that summer. I learned quite a bit during those 500 shows! Back then there seemed to be very few mentalists and my show was unique. Now? Well, that's for another thread! Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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