|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 | ||||||||||
Sam Haine Regular user San Jose, CA 159 Posts 
|
Greetings,
Fraud? Consider the advisor to Caesar who did a billet switch to get a seat in the senate. Psychic fraud gilds ancient history to modern times. However I have a serious issue to raise here. "Psychic Readers": unless you are truly psychic, then any psychic powers you demonstrate to your sitter use deception. If you use deception to convince your sitter that your advice carries anymore weight than another person's, then I consider that Fraud. 
Me? I'm just a Tarot-throwing, aura-sketching, lead-splash, and string-painting reader. I interpret these mediums and nothing more. I don't mix magic principles and readings ever. Are there any others here that make that distinction? Just awaiting the flame emails, Sam Haine
Magical entertainment for charities www.sam-haine.com
|
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2002-07-05 21:42, Sam Haine wrote: And your point? Doing Readings has been and is a primary part of the mentalist art as well as one of the key tools we have available to us for generating extra $$$ (or even full time cash)... Yes! I can use the term "Psychic" and not imply "special powers" other than an expanded sense of personal awareness e.g. being able to see, divine, discern or simply KNOW things that the average human being don't... that is the Edgar Cayce definition of what it means to be "Psychic" and I believe that lays very close to Jung as well. "Being Psychic" has been mis-associated I guess you could say... it has more than one meaning and very little of the terms implication has anything to do with the paranormal or supernatural... yet, like the sex life of humankind (which consumes about 5% of our waking time)some are judged and ***ed based on the least applicable element of what something is or is not. Flames? 
Well, my coon hound has the same name you're using  Someone abandoned him near our home on Halloween weekend and being the good Pagan family we are... well, we had to give him the most logical name... "Sammy"/Sam Hain
OR is that Salwen? 
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
|
Sam Haine Regular user San Jose, CA 159 Posts
|
Greetings Craig/Darmoe,
I am glad you can know things the average person don't [sic] 
I am also heartened to hear that you don't use mentalism methods like clipboards, billets, peeks, nail writers, or on-line vital record searches and can rely on your Jungian "psychic" ability. However, there are a fair number out there who do use such devices in readings. The original question asked about using mentalism techniques for fraud. I propose that using deceptive techniques in a reading is a form of fraud. Agree or not, it is worth pondering Good Luck, Sam Haine (It's only pronounced Sow-hen if you are Gaelic.) (btw: it's spelled "promiscuous")
Magical entertainment for charities www.sam-haine.com
|
|||||||||
|
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2002-07-06 00:28, Sam Haine wrote: It's funny... I've worked within at least a dozen or more noted Curio Shops (witch/new age bookstores) and have NEVER seen anyone use billets, clipboards or any of the other devices we magicians claim they use. Cold Reading materials... well, I had one jerk I worked for that had 3 stock readings he gave everyone and I had to cover his flank with upset tourist at least two or three times a week... as a "tip" he gave me a Steel Mask/ Blindfold one afternoon... I guess his way of saying "O.k. you know I'm a fraud, but let's keep this between us..." Yes! There are those that use a limited degree of trickery out there and they are very easy to spot. Truth be known, the shut-eye clients will typically weed them out before most "trained eyed" pros get into the picture. I have one old lady here in my home town that's done Billet Reading for some 50 years or better. Everytime she sees me at a Psychic Fair or store, she packs her bags and runs... all because I thumb tacked the billet to the table one day and she "couldn't connect" with me... imagine that. Then too, I did a billet reading/Q&A routine at an event one day, not knowing she was within eye shot of the stage... people were amazed at my ability and asked if I knew her... I explained that I avoid people that used parlor tricks under the guise of being legit and even offered them Hades Publishing's address so they could buy the notes and learn how to do the same thing she was doing... that I'd just done. The real danger in fraudulent ops isn't the slight of hand and devices, it's how psychology is applied, superstitions exploited, etc. You will find that most of the real cons in this line of work target the hispanic, black and "backward" thinking white communities... I don't say this as a slam... but statistically speaking the bulk of the white patrons to the Telephone psychics reside in the Bible Belt e.g. what we used to call Hillbillies... You will also find that most of these "Readers" learned how to hustle clients via Anna Riva's book "Black & White Magick" which is filled with cold readings, how to set the client up with the idea of curses, etc. and what candles, oils, charms, etc. to SELL THEM for protection and healing. This is BIG BUSINESS and no matter how much you try to explain to these people what's what, they aren't going to listen. Most Black & Hispanic people as well as "southern whites" has some degree of exposure to folk or Voodoo type magick and related cultures... this is a multi-generational thing (think of the 100th Monkey phenomena). I have worked with law enforcement agencies in investigating this kind of operation more than a few times; most recently in the Reno area (where it is rampant!) Legally, it is a complicated web to untangle until several people file complaints... most wont file complaints out of fear of being cursed by the "witch" in question, thus we find the Catch 22 around the issue. When I do talks or workshops on Being A Reader or even working with Magick (as in esoteric type stuff) I try to remove the boogieman and fantasy elements from the student's mind and give them a more logical and scientific point of view. Without this dose of "reality" inserted here and there from within the industry, we end up with a bunch of fickle airheads that simply exist in a delusion filled world of blind-faith and false affirmation (just spend a weekend in L.A. and you'll see what I mean...  ) But, give people some food for thought and challenge them to see beyond the illusion.. the fantasy of the lore... you begin to empower them for real. That's what I attempt to do in my "day work" as a Reader & Counselor and minister of metaphysics... e.g. "The Way of the Wise" does not mean we walk in blind faith or in a state of delusional existence. IT DEMANDS that we open our eyes, take some responsibility, and SEE what is what around each and every mystery, taking in ALL of the data we can find (even when we don't agree with it) so it can be digested... some call it Gnosticism... regardless, it is how genuine "Wisdom" is cultivated... at least, that's how I was taught.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
thiago Regular user Brazil 179 Posts
|
Hi folks from the forum!
I´m new to this forum so for a quick background: I´m a brazilian professional magician. I do mostly mental and some stage work also. Here in Brazil we are currently been "anoyed" by the media with a guy called Thomaz Green Morton (www.thomazgreenmorton.org) he uses mentalism techniques to say he has psychic powers (metal bendig -spoon coins- readings, and others). To some more info check out Randi´s web site (www.randi.org). This kind of stuff does harm people who belive in this. The ones who use magic techniques to claim supernatural powers and take money for healing ARE CRIMINALS WHO MUST BE IN JAIL! Our art must be used for enterteinment and not FRAUD SUPPORTING. I´ve already contacted this tv network and JREF, so we hope this guy will be exposed as fraud. |
|||||||||
|
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2002-07-06 11:01, thiago wrote: Firstly, I do not mean to make this "personal" but it will seem such... your pov is based on "what magicians are encouraged to think" because of the influences set into our craft by people like Mr. Randi. Unwittingly, you have categorized someone I'll assume you have not personally met, gotten to know or investigated yourself. Thus, your charge is based on hearsay vs. actual investigation... over 99% of such charges are "assumed" with little to no direct investigation by the one(s) making said charges. Now I do not know this man or anything about him so I can't say one way or the other as to what he is or is not doing. What I can do however, is challenge you to have a more opened mind and not jump to conclusions... this has been my position around this issue each and everytime I see such an accusative post... I must ask if you "KNOW THIS" as fact via experience or, if you are offering a magician's knee jerk testimony? I'll bet it's the latter... As I've said, we must all find the median on this issue and in some way, kindly allow St. Randi recognize that he really isn't God, or the last word on the issue... things exist in this world outside his  o.k... I'll say it wisdom...
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
|
thiago Regular user Brazil 179 Posts
|
Directed to Darmoe
************************ I´ll not make this personal. Is by the discussion of diferent opinions that we grow. I think you´ve precipited yourself in some conclusions you´ve taken. I hope you do not make this personal. You´ve bet the wrong ************************** I´m not so supid to talk about what I don´t know. I know this guy since 1990, when he was claiming the same powers of Uri Geller. I´ve seen his tricks and you could see for yourself something about him at the website I indicated. He is a very bad performer and charges a fee of U$1.000,00 for consultation or healing illnes like cancer. He is a fraud and was already "caught in the act" exchanging a fork to another to present an effect similar to Banachek´s fork twist. I would not post about anything if I did not have the necessary knowledge of the facts. You seem to have taken some conclusions for yourself ang rotulated me as if I was "offering a magician's knee jerk testimony". It is not wise to rotulate the people without knowing about them. I know Thomaz, I know he is fraud.You don´t know me and how deep I´m involved in this investigation. If you had taken the time to check out the websites that I mentioned before posting, and if you really are a magician you would recognize the tecniches this man use and would have posted something complete diferent. I hope this make things clear. |
|||||||||
|
McCritical Regular user 156 Posts
|
Quote:
Amen. Most skeptics don't seem to be interested in promoting a healthy balance between skepticism and faith, it seems to be an all or nothing proposition. Unfortunately, this scene seems to be eroding the art and mysticism of magic from within. Ventriliquism and juggling were once looked upon as mystic abilities. But as common folk discovered that those talents only required agility and a lot of practice, the general public has basically lost interest in those artforms. (Which is a shame if you've ever seen the eerie and beautiful effects of someone juggling silk--but hey, we know that, just like piano lessons, any chump can do it with just a little practice) Mysticism grabs the public attention, it actually gets people excited enough to see a performance. Exposing the tricks of the trade, whether it be Valentino or the work of skeptics (working in the public interest, of course...no one would ever force their opinion on the public at the expense of a performer to stroke their own pragmatic egos  ) does nothing but diminish the impact of a magician to perform the impossible. Which ultimately is what an audience really wants to see. If you want to impress an audience with non mystical flair that has no deceptive qualities at all, limit your performance to just the flourishes.
|
|||||||||
|
Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts
|
Since Randi's come up in this discussion, I thought I'd share this little tidbit I discovered whilst traipsing through the world wide web last week.
It's from a really cool site featuring claims from various mentalists, at http://www.zem.demon.co.uk/claims.htm. Of particular note are the following quotes from/about a certain James Randi: Quote:
"Certain perceptions have been given me and I have improved them by a deep study of the science of metal [sic] telepathy and clairvoyance." Interesting, huh? --A
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
|
|||||||||
|
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2002-08-09 23:01, McCritical wrote: Wow! I love what you have to say here. I know I'm new and inexperienced at all this stuff... I've only been playing around with magic since 1964... but I have noticed an interesting trend that started about 20 some odd years ago... THE PUBLIC DON'T WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS STUFF WORKS! People love to be fooled. Moreso, they love to believe in the unbelievable. When magicians begin looking at and lending more reprise to the roots of our art (e.g. Shamanism) we will see it raise up out of the ashes of today's commercialism and lost spirit. This is not to say that we become charlatans and prey upon an ignorant public, but rather, we allow them the fantasy they are seeking. Recognizing that they really aren't a dumb and gullible as we keep telling them they are simply because they want to believe in something. As I posted elswhere... today's clinical Psych world is so designed as to classify anyone that believes in and has a testimony of anything spiritual or surreal as being cracked. That includes anyone that's walked down to the altar during a revival meeting folks... anyone that "talks to God" in prayer, etc. It's something to think about when you put on those skeptic's shoes and reach out to condemn everyone else's beliefs. As I've said before, I know there are fakes and crooks of every caliber and form out there. Of all the psychics I've personally tested (and there have been hundreds!) less than 25 have past even the first set of tests I've designed and intentionally woven around me. Now, I don't know anything about this guy in south America but I do know charlatans tend to target the black and hispanic communities as well as the "poor white trash" demographic due to known superstitions and limited intelligence, etc found in these segments of our world culture. Chances are strong this dude is another con artist... every town has at least two or three working the grind. 
Here in Ohio I have a little sawed off Black Spiritualist Minister doing a billet act straight out of Nelson's mspt. that I can't get the cops to even think about looking at or a reporter to cover a story. I also know of at least two very bad "Billet Readers" associated with the area Unititarian church... other than a very old shaman living outside the city, I have yet to meet anyone in this region that comes close to being real....
Well... that's my two-cents worth.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Mentalism techniques for fraud (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 | ||||||||||
Posted: Jul 6, 2002 01:42 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.08 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement <
|