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landmark
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A somewhat serious thread, if you have the patience.

It seems to be true that we rarely change our minds about our world view; when confronted with political, social, or economic facts that contradict our world view, we rationalize and distort, bludgeoning the new information into our old world view.

Indeed, there's some experimental evidence to suggest that when confronted with facts that contradict our world view, it only strengthens that view.

So two questions I put on offer:

1) What forms a world view? Why, for example, does one person identify, say, as a conservative, and another as a socialist?

2) What changes one's world view? Can you point to a major shift in your world view that occurred and identify why it happened?

It's true we all are born into certain circumstances and parents, but our views sometimes transcend those factors. I'm wondering why, and what the mechanism is. Or is it that less change happens than I am hypothesizing?
RNK
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Hmmmmm. This should be interesting. Tread lightly everybody........ Though I do think this would be really neat and fascinating to hear others stories and/or transformations and find the questions Landmark put forth really interesting! Very neat thread Landmark!
arthur stead
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Good topic, Landmark. For better or for worse, I've experienced a number of major life changes. Just one example: I was raised in South Africa and pretty much indoctrinated into the apartheid system. But when I was 6 years old, our family moved to Holland for 3 years. All of a sudden, I had black classmates. Which made a huge difference to my outlook on life and my understanding of equality. This new viewpoint stayed with me after we moved back to South Africa.
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George Ledo
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I haven't had any major shifts, but I did have a conversation with Donna the other night, and Arthur's post just brought it back. We were at dinner, and she commented on a set I designed a few years ago, and how she thought it was a really cool and appropriate idea, and she had no clue how I came up with it. What came out of my mouth before I ever saw it coming (and I did say it very nicely), was that I basically just shut up and observed the theatre and the story, and listened to what the director wanted to do, and let it all sink in, before I came up with anything. I guess, I was open to seeing what was there before putting in my two-cents' worth.

So my answer to question #2 in the OP was that, in this case, I was open to not falling back on my usual way of doing things.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Wait a sec, you're saying I get more cookies, praise and money if I wear a striped tie? Next question... how do you notice when something better comes along? Something about attachment to ones choices. Try that with the Monty Hall problem: Take away the one you picked so you can't distinguish it from the other...feel that? what is that?
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I have never been confronted with political, social, or economic facts that contradict my world view.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Jonathan Townsend
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One typical example is "money"= trade/choices, "not nice" when enfant, "girls" when a bit older, there are probably many more you can recall if you try.
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landmark
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Quote:
Wait a sec, you're saying I get more cookies, praise and money if I wear a striped tie?


But that very realization in itself leads some onto a completely different path. One that gets fewer cookies, praise, and money. And take back your tie. See teen-age rebellion. See the Christ stories and the Disciples. Why?
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landmark
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Why that one? And why the one that was just converted to? And why then?
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2) Sometimes shifts are slow. For example, 40 years ago, I had very different ideas about sexual minority rights than I do now. I've changed, but the world has changed all around me at the same time.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Feb 25, 2016, landmark wrote:
Quote:
Wait a sec, you're saying I get more cookies, praise and money if I wear a striped tie?


But that very realization in itself leads some onto a completely different path. One that gets fewer cookies, praise, and money. And take back your tie. See teen-age rebellion. See the Christ stories and the Disciples. Why?


I disagree. Saw teenage rebellion as product, with self loathing grey flannel suits that were so obviously passee when Robbie the Robot spun a pocket watch on the twilight zone, thank you Rod Serling and Richard Matheson. That was fifty years ago. Christ stories? Let's stay out of religion for now, please.

Give me the child and I'll give you the man... not so sure that works if they have Facebook and YouTube.

Look at baseline reality as awareness changes ones perspective. Santa Claus is probably a workable social construct for our dialogue about layered stories.
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Tom Cutts
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1) To some degree "world views" are reactionary. Or perhaps a better word is counter reactionary. Children tend, it seems, to rebel against their parents. This is merely experiential finding so I could be off base in a scientific way, but it sure seems that way. So to some degree some world views are formed as counter reactions to our parents. This doesn't account for all, and certainly there are also many people who perpetuate their parents' world view.

2) For me, true interaction with people is what changes a world view. When I was a kid there were no publicly out gays. Gay was thought to be something bad to be hidden from the rest of society. I held that view as a kid because I didn't know anything else. As an adult interacting with them I came to learn they are just people like everyone else.

I have often contended that if everyone were truly familiar with the cuisine of foreign countries and the families which often run such restaurants, we would wage war on far less countries than we do.

I guess, you could sum it as... sadly, ignorance forms many world views.
tommy
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Everybody is programmed and the reason they want to hold on to their program is simply survival instinct. The actor can embody a new character but not without a fight as his old character will no more give up its body than a deer would to a lion. So likewise they hang on to their world views like dear life. As above so below. Here endeth the lesson.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Jonathan Townsend
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Cookies, training, behaviorism. until relatively recently tribal wisdom was a crucial matter of survival. Stories persist to communicate useful information. sadly, as pointed out a generation ago, our culture has adulthood issues. Let's see how hobbling those still are here:

What did Gertrude mean by "the lady doth protest too much methinks"?

Or is this jest more Theseus to Rorschach (click)?
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lunatik
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I think the media and social media has a humongous role in people's world views. A lot of people just go with the flow and just want to fit in, not cause any divisions or strife.
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landmark
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Quote:
On Feb 25, 2016, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Cookies, training, behaviorism. until relatively recently tribal wisdom was a crucial matter of survival. Stories persist to communicate useful information. sadly, as pointed out a generation ago, our culture has adulthood issues. Let's see how hobbling those still are here:

What did Gertrude mean by "the lady doth protest too much methinks"?

Or is this jest more Theseus to Rorschach (click)?


We don't just tell stories; we live inside them as characters. So the first step in changing a story is to understand we are living in one, and can step outside it, changing it. In my experience, this comes from one of the following ways:

1) Trauma
2) Meditation
3) Drugs
4) Love
5) Religious experience
tommy
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6) Hitler

Authority etcetera has a powerful influence, which can be abused: The Nazis said, well you can’t argue with science 97% agree don’t you know and then they used this stamp of authority among other things to back up their racist policies.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Jonathan Townsend
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Hitler's book and arguments/speeches were not about science so much as claims of practical imperatives.

So far not much reference to Plato's Allegory of the Sun.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Joseph Campbell on becoming an adult.
Gertrude tries to talk to her son.
Rorschach wins the argument by not having a self to reconcile.
The Swarm grows what it needs to handle another flash in the pan.
Plato... a myth from long ago and far away but no cute robots to coddle and collect.
*
So what world view do you have? Shaped by stories you watch but don't live.
*
One Café member posted that having a child changed his priorities, but not enough to address his own character - just the specifics of his demands of others. Striped tie or pattern? Hipster hoodie or antique army jacket? consumer cliché as seen on tv.
*
What's your story? Does what you see around you look like the story you imagined? What might someone else see as the story?
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