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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Chroma by Nicholas Lawrence & Lloyd Barnes (29 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Elliot Nicklas
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What's wrong with all you people?! Can't you see Nicholas is the victim here?! He's the most creative magician in our time. He clearly doesn't need to steal! Fatgumbo, you are a minion, face it. Spit on Will Tsai for me. Michael Mindreader, who the hell are you? You are a nobody. You are comparing yourself and your creativity with Nicholas Lawrence? Magic McKing, is this even your real name? How do you know Nicholas didn't come up with this long before Bob? He came up with Pound long before the Wire guy published it.
Legendary Wizard
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Haha ... No surprise to see you here , Elliot you seem to be the biggest supporter of Nicholas from your previous posts .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

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catweazle
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
How do you know Nicholas didn't come up with this long before Bob? He came up with Pound long before the Wire guy published it.


"a couple of months ago myself and nicholas lawrence sat down and took a look at a really old but really smart card gimmick that we both felt was really under used.
we started jamming our ideas and the next thing you know, we have both COME UP WITH OUR OWN UNIQUE HANDLINGS TO THE METHOD AND UPDATES TO THE GIMMICK."

QUOTE FROM THE DEMO VIDEO
NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Appreciate the support elliot but I certainly did not create mine before Bob..also I'm not any better than anyone else,never have I ever presented myslef as such. I admit that its not a release I am proud of Because of the issues. I have already said if it were up to me I would pull Chroma off the market and that its not fair to Bob. Again I'm not selling anything...i worked on a project that is all.
C. Dunlop Magic
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It went from "Who the hell do you think you are?" to "no complains on my Facebook" and now "if it were up to me..." Lame. C'mon, you are a part of the project. That's a lot MORE you can do than just "if it were up to me". Public apology to creators you stole from, request Ellusionist to take this off shelf and express you don't want to be a part of this with your name and image off the product and trailer, so much you can do if you are being real about it. And if you want to convince people at this point, try actually answer questions people asked so far.

Elliot, I haven't seen any posts from you other than blindly supporting Nicholas. Just saying..
jackaboy
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I love a lot of nicholas's products he's a great magician I have all the respect for him but elliot to say he's the most creative magician of all time is ridiculous
NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Even I agree to that one..(i am not the most Creative magician) But again I love my supporters even if they exaggerate the truth. I just have to say why am I being attacked like this..? What have I done wrong,so bad that I'm being called a thief!? Really...
magicman29
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Nicolas, I think forget working with any companies other than your own for awhile . You worked for SansMinds and looked what happened, then everything was going good for you with sensor and now you do work with ellusionist and its back to the sh. t again.

Kieran
NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Thanks for the advice kieran. That and stay off the Café!! Great advice for any young creator. This place is a dark place in magic...
TuneHV
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This thread got ugly fast.

To be fair, it's Lloyd's version of the gimmick that is nearly identical to Bob's- Nicholas' version had some differences.

I think The Will Tsai conspiracy theories are a bit far fetched, but to each their own.

Nicholas has already done more than enough to prove himself as a prolific creator with a lot of original ideas- great minds will think alike at times- it would just be nice if we all could act ethically and respectfully when those instances occur, but not everyone in this thread needs to act as the magic police
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NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Thankyou TuneHV... Ive had one hell of a day here & yes I made a claim Will Tsai is on here with Multiple accounts and cant prove it yet but I'm not the only one who thinks this and it will be revealed. Have a look at the Lynx Watch forum...once you know the user names to look for it becomes clear. As for this situation, I don't know what else I can do, ive already said that ive learned that chroma is not an original gimmick and I don't think its fair to Bob. If it were up to me I would pull the release right now but it isn't up to me.. Lets see what happens I personaly always do my best to make things right in the first place.
Legendary Wizard
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2016, C. Dunlop Magic wrote:
It went from "Who the hell do you think you are?" to "no complains on my Facebook" and now "if it were up to me..." Lame. C'mon, you are a part of the project. That's a lot MORE you can do than just "if it were up to me". Public apology to creators you stole from, request Ellusionist to take this off shelf and express you don't want to be a part of this with your name and image off the product and trailer, so much you can do if you are being real about it. And if you want to convince people at this point, try actually answer questions people asked so far.

Elliot, I haven't seen any posts from you other than blindly supporting Nicholas. Just saying..


While what you're saying is quite right , however I don't think any would pull themselves out of the projects they've worked on for a long time and put their full hearts into it , even when they've got super duper huge morality ... At least not instantly . It's easy to say , but it isn't easy to put yourself in his shoe . I do trust that he wasn't aware of this when he joined the creation , it would be unfair to ask him to pay full responsibility on this project . Afterall ... Ellusionist should be the one doing the most major research isn't it ? Since they're the company who released it . Just don't think your should be attacking Nicholas so harshly here ... There's no reason for it .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
Chessmann
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Bob Swadling does have a trick using this principle. However, did Bob originate this principle? Was Bob's his to claim as his own? I don't know the answers to these questions, but it would seem odd, indeed, if this principle had not been explored multiple times by multiple people over the years prior to Bob's effect being released.

I know that generally speaking one does not copy a trick absolutely verbatim, but there are allowances if the effect is improved from a techincal/construction point of view. Is it absolutely sure that Chroma and Bob's effect are constructed *exactly* alike?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Legendary Wizard
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Don't have both versions but I don't think any effect would be exactly alike unless deliberately copied .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
Matthew Crabtree
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On Mar 19, 2016, Magician560 wrote:


While what you're saying is quite right , however I don't think any would pull themselves out of the projects they've worked on for a long time and put their full hearts into it , even when they've got super duper huge morality ... At least not instantly . It's easy to say , but it isn't easy to put yourself in his shoe . I do trust that he wasn't aware of this when he joined the creation , it would be unfair to ask him to pay full responsibility on this project . Afterall ... Ellusionist should be the one doing the most major research isn't it ? Since they're the company who released it . Just don't think your should be attacking Nicholas so harshly here ... There's no reason for it .


All it takes is a couple of emails to a couple of people to get the answer 99% of the time. But the creator of the effect has the burden to do the leg work.
Legendary Wizard
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Yes , you're right , but notice there's two creaters ... ? What I'm trying to say here is , indeed he should have done some research , but there's no reason to put full blame on Nicholas .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
toointoit
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Well...if you look at many past Nicholas Lawrence releases. Like On/Off, Split Second, Space Shifter, Impale, and Chroma...they all seem to be using past methods to accomplish similar effects.
On/Off was a straight ripoff from Simply Harkey
Split Second was a straight ripoff from Jesse Feinbergs trick, CashBox
Space Shifter used Danny Garcia's torn principle
Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card.
And Chroma...just look through this thread.
Nicholas may seem like a "Prolific Creator" but it just looks like he is building his "career" on the work and methods from others.
don't even get me started on how he went about him leaving SansMinds.
NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2016, toointoit wrote:
Well...if you look at many past Nicholas Lawrence releases. Like On/Off, Split Second, Space Shifter, Impale, and Chroma...they all seem to be using past methods to accomplish similar effects.
On/Off was a straight ripoff from Simply Harkey
Split Second was a straight ripoff from Jesse Feinbergs trick, CashBox
Space Shifter used Danny Garcia's torn principle
Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card.
And Chroma...just look through this thread.
Nicholas may seem like a "Prolific Creator" but it just looks like he is building his "career" on the work and methods from others.
don't even get me started on how he went about him leaving SansMinds.


Give me a moment to write up my responce to your pile of garbage comment,thanks.
Legendary Wizard
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Toointoil , I disagree with your statement completely . Apparently you have no clue what a new " creation " is , in this art .

Simply put , those release you mentioned that Nicholas had put out , was an improvement / a very new approach to the classic or original idea . Let me pose you a question then , would you consider all those double lift variations or pass variations a straight rip off from the original double lift or the pass ?

A principle is there for us to explore , and to improve on it , so long as there's right crediting ( in some cases ) , the creation is not considered a rip off at all .

However I'm really appalled by your " Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card . " ... Haha ... I've nothing to say on this one man ... Do you know just how many gimmicks made use of this f**p principle ?

There seem to have some extremist on here . One who said Nicholas is the greatest creator of all time and some who said that he's a theft ...

C'mon humans !
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
NicholasLawrenceMagic
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Warning: You are about to read the rants and explanations behind these false claims & attacks on me & my character,Brand ect.(typos are to be expected,ill try my best)

Let me start off by saying thankyou to my supporters, means a lot. I'm now going to explain why (tointoit) comment is a pile of garbage and why I think (tointoit) is an As*hole..

Now let me explain why my effects are simply NOT ripoff's thank you very much...as*hole.

*onoff-   My first release & one of my proudest, My Credit to this effect was removed by Will Tsai  without my knowledge but indeed was Meir Yedid and after meeting him in person he is a real fan! And a great guy. Why is onoff so much different than David's magic? Firstly on Simply Harkey the material & moves are very different. This book has been out of print and very hard to achieve for awhile now, even more rare seeing anyone use his material, even the old timers at my local ring had no clue about Harkey as he is a secret gem of a creator. With that said I never seen David's moves and his very different routines until OnOff was released thus not ripoff of any kind, inluding again the look and method of the effects is very different. After getting some info from a guy who owns Harkeys book he told me "Never worry,  David didn't take his technique that far and never shaped his hands like yours, the effects he did with the technique were much different. The closest thing he had was he would pass a ring to pass through his ring finger falling onto the table. What he was doing was unbelievably different compared to yours." now after hearing this I was assured I was in the clear but I didn't stop there. I learned and mastered Harkey's technique which took time to adjust, to the many differences! Now I can not only say I learned the differences but see them & feel them. Learn the effects and see for yourself, don't make false negative statements about me in public space until you know the facts.

*Split Second- ok! Lets start off by saying again I had no clue about Jesse's Work at the time of creating Split second. His version is very different firstly because he can not naturally remove his setup from a wallet like mine, his is awkwardly pulled from a pocket looking like ironed pair of denim jeans, the truth.. It isn't natural and looks terrible as its one of his earlier creations. Where mine again comes from my wallet which takes it us to our Next difference. The look of the gimmick, Jesse's gimmick is thick & stiff and does nOt look real where mine is simply a real Bill and looks because it is, sounds and feels like a real bill because it is attached in a way to achieve a natural look. If those 2 differences are not enough of an improvement to a very simple Transformation effect I don't know what is.. this I can guarantee that Jesse wasnt the first to attempt this plot either(i don't have reference)but ridiculous to not understand we all stand on the shoulders of giants & the fact that split second was indeed a completely different independent creation that did hit the major market unlike Jesse's cashbox... that alone Is enough of a difference for me. His was unknown to the general public and after the differences have been addressed I can assure you mine is far superior and truly designed for the working magician, yet I have dramatic improvements added to my published version and that shows you I don't ever stop creating and working on my magic, I'm not copying its simply my take on these classic effects because that appears to be my style..i love basic simple everyday magic and I like to create what is easily explained magic effects which apparently has its curse of attacks because its similar to older published effects, but again I assure you the work behind these illusions are very different form one another. You should have more respect for those who dedicate there live to magic and attempting to better or inspire those involved, shame on you really...lets talk about Space shifter were getting off topic.

*Space Shifter- This is funny to me that I know so much more then my attacker about these referred thefts in the magic community.. Moving on, firstly Daniel Garcia did not create this principle actually it was Doug Bennet and his business Merger effect where Garcia was inspired from apparently. The principle may have been created before Doug... Again being self taught I was un-aware of these effects until my release, so indeed I used Doug's principle to achieve my effect which is completely original and has never even been a thought by another creator to move torn space,which since I have released it I opened up new doors & truly believe I made a difference by inspiring our generation. As Chris Ramsey would say, Space shifter looks like angle Z on acid. Which is amusing because it really is a trippy and original effect and I'm quite proud of & certain by the emails and messages I've received that it has inspired a lot of people..it truly is amazing. Kinda how amazing it was that I didn't get paid a dime for my effects Impale or Distance..lets move on down here it gets better.

*IMAPALE-  Now let me start off by saying I independently created sharpie through card 15 years ago after purchasing 'All New Cig Through by Mark Mason. I made many of these gimmicks over the years even gifted one of these gimmicks to a world famous magician kinda putting a time stamp on the moment for himself & I. I kept on working further on said plots like I naturally would and later I seen my original effect on the market by another artist which has now happened to me well over 50 times in the last 10 years & does happen I'm over it.. I still didn't drop the ball I took the effect further and made it into an opening effect which I am obsessed with by the way.. because I know it is the secret to engaging a crowd in seconds and keeping their attention off the rip! So I created IMPALE which By the way Jason Yu had nothing to do with.. the design of the gimmick is 100% mine start, start to finish, his name was added to promote himself and I guess make him stand out next to me... Anyways I agreed to that and that's fine but the point at hand here is this..to compare a simple sharpie through card to the layered intricacies & impossibilities involved with impale is insane. To be logical here its actually almost 60 X's more impossible than the traditional sharpie through card and then ends with everything examinable.. Get a life.

*Chroma I have explained Myslef enough...check the thread.

*Me Leaving SansMinds- You seem to know so much about me and my life & all my ripoff creations so you don't have to read this part Smile Here we go, I quit sansminds because I realized I wasn't going to receive the owed bonusus and paychecks once I realized they were breaching their own contract, I Quit. I realized all the promised raises,bonus & overall uncapped shi**y contract was a lie..he used me for over 500 of my effects,  Sansminds were very ugly to me after I filmed over 20 effects with their production team on my trip to their HQ in Canada. I could not understand why I was feeling used because I thought I was working with a appreciative mutually respected team... But really I was just a secret project to beef up their company. I cant say certain things here but I'm trying to give you guys the truth and how I was raped & left dry by sanminds & Will Tsai. I started to "run out" of new ideas after a year & a half into working & submitting 25 ideas a month. They then acted very cold and completely cut me off when they still owed me money from my last 2 checks and my promised royalties & contracted earned bonuses that I never received ever.. They then freezed my paypal account by saying I didn't "pay them" which in fact I didn't owe them anything anyway with paypal procedure I waited and my account was released and I didn't owe anyone anything.. I ended up winning the paypal dispute.. Now they start attacking me anyway they know how. Using my material even though they have a breached contract and a serious disagreement at hand. Then imagine this you tease a New effect for Sensor-Magic on IG & they hurry up and release it on The Wire because they know that is one of their last potential attacks to me. Could you even imagine how any of this feels? How far it sets me back...not to mention I only earned $200 For OnOff.. Embarrassing but truth.. Same for Split Second and Spaceshifter & others..all roughly $200 cash a piece because of the circumstances and contract it seemed like an ok deal in the beginning because of my lack of experience in the magic industry. My Autism is a huge role of who I am and the decisions I made, I chose to work with these people. I submitted those effects in the same month and they added them up and paid me but then promised that if the sales picked up and people enjoyed my material I would get the chance of a New contract that would include more $$ & royalties.. Which I never received forcing me to quit ...Unless I was going to release distance & impale for only $200 profit,which is insane. I didn't earn a dime for Impale or Distance..at all. Is this enough for you
Yet? Am I in the clear with how I left sanminds? Why I would want justice and inform the community about their sansminds con seems pretty legit now huh? You have no clue what its like to have a lot of your work (hundreds of valuable future magic products) ripped off and then to have my trade restricted by them contacting every production team saying not to work with me until they have cleared individually pitched effects to make sure they are not sanminds property...that alone is a serious restriction of trade, most have no clue of the seriousness of these issues and the condition it left me in both mentally, physically and financially. Please take a second and understand why I'm bitter yet admire that I have it in me to continue learning & advancing in this industry...for god sakes why is everyone a *** judge or magic police these days.. I work my ba**s off to accomplish what I have and still have NOTHING, I pay my bills and stay at home working or travel and work... Again only sustaining my lifestyle rather than moving ahead where some others have it easy enough to release a couple of effects and walk aways with thousands and endless opportunity where I again work work work and barely advanced my everyday life, I hope that those I inspired can at least say i accomplished something in my magic career, because apparently to people like you I'm a piece of fuc*ing sh*t, Thankyou. See you next time
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