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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Ball and Cone (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Kanawati
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My lovely wife found these rubber/bounce eggs and thought they could make interesting magic props for me! Anyway, I've recently become interested in the ball, cone and handkerchief trick by Dai Vernon. This isn't it! But it inspired me to try and use these eggs instead of billiard balls and I refer to the cone as a waffle (ice cream) cone. Apologies for the really bad puns. This is a work in progress, a rough draft, but eventually I'd like to come up with something that can play well for kids as well as adults. Any advice relating to structure, technical handling, or how to make it more entertaining for adults would be most welcome:) The routine can be seen at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyHWtIGXdGU Many thanks! John
Bill Hegbli
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Kanawati, I like your idea and it works. It needs of course to be a complete routine. Either tell the audience what the trick is suppose to be first. They don't know things are not working correctly until they know what is "suppose" to be happening 1st.

Either do the trick as it should be, then have it start "acting up" on you, or tell them in words. You have the moves down very well, so it is just about a good full routine and patter story now.

You even have hits of Fred Kaps, magic happening and unruly.

You could very well do some of the Dai Vernon moves of having the ball travel to the top of the cone, and such.

Make sure you tell them that you are using an egg, and salt shaker. It was not instantly recognized or realized.

There is no reason why you could not do a color change as well, either to a white egg or even colorful egg.

Paint the cone to look like a sugar ice cream cone.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
funsway
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I love effects with eggs. In experimenting with ball/cone approach I found that a tall, straight sided cup can also work
as the friction drag time is enough to retain rather than pinch

PM me if that doesn't make sense
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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jay leslie
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Kan
The modest appearance of an egg, compared to a ball, may make it more natural & appealing but I have to admit - I’ve bought two sets of Multiplying Eggs and never could make the egg nest with the gimmick on command.

It’s possible you might have a similar issue with predictability, due to the asymmetrical shape of the egg….. But I like the idea.
Kanawati
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Many thanks for your advice Bill! I recently re-watched Tommy Wonder's DVD and he also taught this idea of the audience needing to know what is actually meant to happen before they can know that things are going wrong. I understood the comments in the light of the routines he was explaining. It just never occurred to me to apply this idea to my routine! I'll work on an intro that provides that sort of set up. It might also make the routine a bit funnier. Fred Kaps is one of my favorite performers! I've been practicing his Homing Card for a long time but yet to perform it publicly. I've actually ordered a fake/imitation waffle cone. If it turns out to be the right size it will be great. Otherwise I'll be trying to make the cone look more like the real thing as per your suggestion. Really appreciate all the ideas and the constructive advice.
Thank you Funsway! I think I know what you are referring to re: friction vs pinching:)
jay leslie
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Ahh

Just saw the vid

If it was me. On the first vanish of the egg (when you pull it from your pocket) I would then switch to the second phase left handed - that way you’re not changing the egg for the cone from hand to hand.It would be cleaner that way.

Otherwise. I like it.
OH yeah, The third phase, switch back to right handed,
Kanawati
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Many thanks Jay! When I get home I'll give it a go. Not sure I can do the move with the egg in the other hand though! But I understand what you mean by it looking cleaner that way.
jay leslie
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You can do it. This is not a difficult move. People learn to pull doves from both sides, you can do it.

Other exercises that help would be Tying shoelaces and neck ties mirrored to what you're used to.
Changing your fork and knife hand and using a pair of scissors with the opposite hand.

A study at a major university concluded that a person with their leg in a cast will improve the tone of that leg and it's strength if the other leg continues to exercise.
Another study with veterans showed that a person with a intentionally incapacitated hand would cause the brain to rewire so the other hand works better.

So basically, one could assume that if you learn your slights with both hands your brain will work better. A better brain means that an automatic function becomes smoother and if there's an upset, you will recover easier.

In my case, I do a lot of ball manip, there are some moves which have angle problems but having the ability to switch sides hides the bad angles (from someone who unexpectedly sits too close on the wrong side). Switching sides also smooths out any hand-washing type moves.

As Aldo used to say "why does a person pick up an object just to put it in another hand when it could have been picked up with the other hand, in the first place.
Dick Oslund
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Right Jay!

Dai Vernon spends several pages in his "Dai Vernon's Book Of Magic" discussing the French Drop, and, "picking up a coin with one hand, then taking it in the other hand".

Jim Swoger taught you well!
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jay leslie
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He was a great influence.
Example; A ball routine ends with the ball in the left pocket whereas It started with the ball in the right -The routine is now presented in the same sequence using opposite hands which avoids odd looking adjustments which detract.

Even if you learn to tie square knost left over right and right over left, this type of applied activity will exercise your brain to solve problems better.
funsway
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There is always some suspicion on the taking hand, especially on a repeat move. Try a "Preemptive Doubt" approach of displaying the hand empty before it goes to the pocket.

How? I use technique called "Chesting" in which the ball/egg is "Idled" between the forearm and belly, and then later retrieved.

The Cone move is made with the hands close to the chest.

After the cone/cup is balanced on the left palm that arm moves forward as a display and the body swings right to shown to that side of the audience,
which naturally has the right hand behind the left arm. The ball is tossed back and caught/pinched behind the forearm.

Ideally, the left elbow is several inches past your side, placing the ball as near to your belly button as possible.

The right hand lift up in openhanded display to balance the "teetering" cone with the fingertip, then back towards your face with paim to the audience.
You might even adjust your glasses or scratch you nose -- what ever is natural and congruent for you.

At the same time you body swings left to display to that side and the left arm rolls back, dragging/rolling the ball along.
The the left arm hinges out and down. The right hand has dropped and turned palm inward.

The timed expanding diaphragm expels the ball to be caught by the right hand that now points at the cone.
AS the Left hand and cone returns to center your right proceeds to the pocket as before.

ou only have to do such a "Sway Move once to "close the door" on suspicion that the ball is either hidden behind the cone or in the right hand.

SInce the audience may not have been paying attention on the first sequence, you do this to "give a closer look" on the second phase.

As a more practiced move the finger tip can remain on the top of the cone as the body rotates and arms swing to the left side.
With all eyes on the cone the left arm releases the ball and the right arm claims it. The left hand continues on with just the cone

The right arm can now roll the hidden ball all the way across the belly until it is naturally caught by the hand.
Yes, the ball may actually be visible for a moment during the transfer but will never be seen. It is in a zone of non-perception called "womb,"
from a combination of Directed Focus, Innattention Blindness and Motion Sensitivity.

These moves to both display the empty hands and transfer the ball are from a 60's silk and ball effect.

Please, do not overuse such a technique or draw verbal attention to what you are doing. No, "See, my hand is empty crap."

When the spectator's mind attempts to rewind it will stop at "hand was empty" and that is enough. "(read Al Schneider's 'Intent of Magic')
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Kanawati
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Hi Jay, Many thanks. You've got me practicing some moves with both hands!
Hi Funsway, I really appreciate you explaining this technique and your instructions are clear. I'll play around with it. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use it...but then again maybe I just didn't see it:)
funsway
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Quote:
On Mar 15, 2016, Kanawati wrote:
Hi Jay, Many thanks. You've got me practicing some moves with both hands!
Hi Funsway, I really appreciate you explaining this technique and your instructions are clear. I'll play around with it. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone use it...but then again maybe I just didn't see it:)



It's not like I have shared it with many people. While I have done it hundreds of times I have never seen anyone else do something similar,
or read about any similar technique. The again -- how many are doing Cone and Ball or even silk effects any more?

I am afraid that trust in a video as a learning method kills many techniques that only work with real people Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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