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ed wood Special user 742 Posts 
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I'm performing for a law society in a few months and they want me to mention laws and ethics of performing mentalism throughout the show, I have a few thoughts regarding the ethics of stealing material and claims of psychic powers but can think of very few legal issues that affect what we do. Anyone got any ideas? This would refer to UK law.
Thanks, Ed |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts
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Is it from a performer's point of view? Or from what an audience, even an educated one, believes a mentalist can do?
Do they want to hear about not your pretending to have psychic powers? Or about your not publishing in tabloids the secret thoughts you read? Do they want you to talk about not stealing another performer's material? Or about your not selling to another company the secret plans and formulas you read in theirs R&D guy's mind?
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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Nestor D Special user France (Paris) 830 Posts
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Larsen had an act taylored for this particular audience, it is described at least in the mental writing and other mysteries of William Larsen
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 13, 2016, Cervier wrote: It's from which ever point of view I wish. I don't want to go into detail regarding claims of psychic powers because whilst that's not the point of view I perform from I generally don't make any claims or disclaimers about how I do what I do and don't want to go down that route. Stealing another performers material is definitely something I am considering, talking about it that is, not doing it! I particularly like the catch 22 situation that has happened to many magicians in the past where they want to patent new tricks but they cant because they will then be publishing the secret. Not sure how this applies to us as mentalists but it's a place to start. |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, Nestor D wrote: Thanks, I'll look into this. |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, ed wood wrote: Be aware that this will set you as a magician, as someone who uses tricks. Of course you are totally free to go that way, but let it be clear in your mind that's a statement that doesn't leave much room to any doubt. Make sure the rest of your lecture is consistent with that (i.e. don't put in a chapter about how you keep to yourself all the secrets you mindreader get your "hands" on  , though it would be entertaining and fun, IMHO  )
BTW, I think it could be important that you know which of those POV they expect from you? Maybe you could give a call and ask for a few examples of precise questions they expect you to adress? After all, you're going to perform for them, not for us
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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Christopher Taylor V.I.P. British Columbia Canada 2315 Posts
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You might find this interesting and worth a mention as it is very current: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/apr/06/eu
Also, the legalities of advertising and how many people promote themselves as the real deal, even though it is illegal to do so. All the best, Christopher |
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Elwood Loyal user 287 Posts
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Incredibly current, what with it only being 8 years old!
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts
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You can look at the question in a much more abstract manner. Mentalism could be portrayed as "stealing thoughts". Then it becomes the ultimate in intellectual property copyright violations! That's a much more entertaining and relatable theme for you audience who are not magicians.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, Cervier wrote: You've hit the nail on the head there. Most of the angles I've been considering either make me appear to be a magician or a fraud. There's very little ethically I can discuss which doesn't bring to light the fact that mentalists make claims that may not be true and if it's not true then everything I'm performing are nothing more than tricks. |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, Christopher Taylor wrote: Thanks for that Christopher, absolutely perfect, definitely an angle that's worth pursuing. |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, C.J. wrote: I like your thinking here, would make my life an awful lot easier. Means I don't have to go into too much discussion about how it's done and whether it's real or not whilst still having a law/ethics angle. Think this could be the answer. Thank you. |
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts
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A couple of other themes that are one step back from the obvious:
- Stealing/theft (thoughts and ideas) - Privacy laws (eg sharing personal details on Facebook, but equally giving ourselves away in body language, etc - where can we keep our secrets??) - Identity theft - Thought Crime or Pre-crime (Minority Report) - Adapting a bank night or chair test routine to the theme of a police line up - Truth/lie effects (think courtroom)
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
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Christopher Taylor V.I.P. British Columbia Canada 2315 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, Elwood wrote: Not curent. The correct term was apropos. Sheesh. CT |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, Christopher Taylor wrote: Sheesh indeed, the internet and pedantry, what a terrifying combination! As you say "apropos", current in that it is entirely relevant to my question and current as it is still very much an applicable law. Thank you very much Christopher for taking the time to help. |
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ed wood Special user 742 Posts
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On Mar 13, 2016, C.J. wrote: C.J. You're good at this! Truth/lies is definitely something I'll be using, I already do so it will be very simple to adapt. I love the privacy laws aspect, an easy intro to the more straightforward mind reading part of my show. You've reminded me that for the last five years I've been working on a police line up chair test which became so overly complicated I put it aside. Might be time to simplify and give it another go. |
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Alexxander Elite user Frankfurt, Germany 423 Posts
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What about the laws an ethics about predicting the lottery / manipulating the lottery?
As I recall, Derren Brown has got himself into some trouble when he did his lottery prediction on TV. He briefly touches on this in his penguin interview. |
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bdekolta Inner circle Texas 1636 Posts
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I generally don't make any claims or disclaimers about how I do what I do and don't want to go down that route. I know I am in the minority with this opinion buy you absolutely make claims and disclaimers simply by performing. Doesn't matter if you verbalize those claims or not. |
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MentalistCreationLab Inner circle 1528 Posts
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Here Ed these links below relate to your question. Currently no English law exists on "Fortune Telling" besides a number of fake posts on the subject that have been released in the last several years. That said in the past in 1735 a law did exist. You may also want to have a look at a book The Malleus Maleficarum (1486) which would lend itself to a papal dictate which at the time one could consider it a part of English Law as many times the crown would follow these doctrine. The same would occur here in the US dealing with another topic where in a papal dictate would prompt a Supreme Court decision in 1833 when dealing with the at the time non Christian native Americans and land rights. Which is odd but another story all together. Below you will find some other links to this topic. Also you may want to head down to the local Law library in your area in the UK and see if there is any other religious laws that have been passed by Parliament. Some of the additional terms you may wish to look in to beside Fortune Telling are Spiritualism, laws regarding secret societies such as Freemasonry as these may point to something in the past that relates to your question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Act_1735 http://www.fortunetellinglaws.com/ https://books.google.com/books?id=uu7QAA......&f=false http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......forum=15 |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts
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I am not sure why a performer would let a client dictate what he or she does in their show. Understand that I'm not being snotty here...I just don't see an upside to doing this. You walk in...you do your show...and you leave. You COULD design some part of your show for the legal profession, maybe...but I don't see how the discussion they want helps you as a performer.
David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Posted: Mar 13, 2016 12:53 pm 
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