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rockwall Special user 762 Posts 
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Longtime marijuana use might make you a loser
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-s......ory.html "There's a new report out on longtime marijuana use. And it's bad news for habitual stoners." "And it’s not so much that losers toke weed. It’s that toking a lot of weed over several years turns someone into a loser. It’s not really a chicken or egg thing." “Our study found that regular cannabis users experienced downward social mobility and more financial problems — such as troubles with debt and cash flow — than those who did not” puff persistently. “Regular long-term users,” Cerda continued, “also had more antisocial behaviors at work, such as stealing money or lying to get a job, and experienced more relationship problems, such as intimate partner violence and controlling abuse.” “There is a common perception that cannabis is safer than alcohol,” Cerda added in an interview. “But this study shows that … cannabis is just as bad as alcohol. And in terms of financial problems, cannabis is worse.” |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Something the educated knew all along. Just good to see reinforcement of what was obvious for a long time.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Sounds like a logically suspect attribution of causality from a correlational study.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: It was a group of roughly 1,000 New Zealanders who were studied over four decades — their families tracked when they were children and their cannabis habits monitored between ages 21 and 38. How relevant are New Zealanders to Americans? “The findings were consistent with similar studies in Europe, Australia and the United States,” Cerda said. “We kept cutting the data many ways,” she said, “and we kept seeing the same results over and over again.” |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, rockwall wrote: None of which demonstrates cause and effect.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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To elaborate, it could very easily be that people who were psychologically inclined to smoke marijuana also have personality traits (psychological inclinations) toward other behaviors that would lead to what is considered a lack of success, and people who are not psychologically inclined to smoke marijuana may have other psychological tendencies that lead to general "success." Just as, for instance, there's (probably) a correlation between believing in capital punishment and being against abortion. Nobody would suggest that adopting an anti-abortion stance turns anyone into a capital punishment supporter. To put it another way, to the extent that the correlation exists, it doesn't remotely prove that smoking a lot of marijuana "turns" anyone into a "loser"; it may simply reveal that someone is more likely to be a "loser."
What you'd have to do to really demonstrate the suggested interpretation is take a bunch of people who WANTED TO smoke pot, but didn't (or weren't allowed to, for the purposes of the study), and compare them to people who didn't want to smoke pot, but did so regularly for the sake of the study, and see which group had more eventual "success." You couldn't really do such a study, because almost be definition, the groups would be self-stultifying. Good luck finding a bunch of people who really don't want to smoke pot, but were willing to become long term habitual users, and people, who really wanted to smoke pot, but opted not to for decades.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: That was my first reaction, too. But without reading the study, it's a bit too hasty a conclusion for us to reach. They might have designed the study to make at least some causal argument.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Who is happy?
And in who's interest is it that others aren't happy? Oh yeah, I forgot. Happiness has nothing to do with anything. All that counts is that one is not a "loser". Word: I would rather be a happy loser than an unhappy...ah...uh...what is the alternative? |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: Exactly! thanx lobo. Lynn |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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The epithet "loser" is not part of the original study, nor is it in any of the UC Davis Health releases.
If you'd like to get a little closer to the original study, you can find it here. The UC Davis press release is here and very brief summary of the methodology is here.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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imgic Inner circle Moved back to Midwest to see 1339 Posts
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Here in Colorado, we don't really f'ing care...just pass the Doritos...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: Losers.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, stoneunhinged wrote: “Regular long-term users,” Cerda continued, “also had more antisocial behaviors at work, such as stealing money or lying to get a job, and experienced more relationship problems, such as intimate partner violence and controlling abuse.” Hey, but at least they're happy! |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Note that I said, "it could very easily be..." I didn't reach an opposing conclusion; I just noted that the study doesn't demonstrate the journalist's conclusion.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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+1.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: As far as I know, most journalists aren't experimental researchers. Perhaps there's a reason. |
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The Hermit.jpg "View Profile") Veteran user 301 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: Is this really worth debating the accuracy of the study. I assume those pooh poohing it are not pot users or don't know people who are. If you are a chronic user, you become insular and have no energy or desire to do anything. It's the same as an alcoholic. Everyone that has real world experience knows chronic users are losers. You can debate whether they were losers to begin with or not, but I know quite a few folks that derailed their life through chronic use. Anecdotal evidence is pretty convincing. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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It's not about the accuracy of the study; it's about understanding the results.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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"The study advances knowledge in five ways. First, our results were robust to control for potential sources of confounding present in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, as well as to alternative approaches to address confounding, including stratification and statistical control for potential confounders. In particular, we ruled out family substance-dependence history, childhood socioeconomic adversity, childhood low self-control, childhood
low IQ, adolescent psychopathology, and low achievement orientation, plus sex, ethnicity, and adult family structure as alternative causal explanations for the observed associations between cannabis dependence (and regular cannabis use) and adult economic and social problems. Second, contrary to prior claims, the associations were not an artifact of criminal conviction of cannabis users, earlier age of onset among the more persistent cannabis users, or their dependence on alcohol or hard drugs. Third, we generally observed a dose-response contingency: The more years of cannabis dependence (or regular cannabis use), the worse the economic and social problems. Fourth, the findings were not due to respondent self-report bias: Comparable results were obtained for economic and social problems whether measured by using self-report or administrative record data, such as credit ratings, court records, and government social-welfare-benefit records. Fifth, the findings were not contingent on historically dependent operational definitions of persistent cannabis dependence/regular use. Whereas the definition of cannabis dependence changed slightly across the 20-year longitudinalassessment window (as a result of changes in the DSM), persistence of cannabis use was defined in the same way across the 20-year longitudinal-assessment window. Yet the results were replicated by using both cannabis dependence and persistence of regular cannabis use as the exposure. Cannabis dependence was more strongly linked to financial difficulties than was alcohol dependence; it was not associated with less downward mobility, antisocial behavior in the workplace, and relationship conflict than was alcohol dependence. This finding stands in contrast to popular and expert opinion, which states that heavy alcohol use imposes more economic and social costs than does heavy cannabis use (Editorial Board, 2014; Weissenborn & Nutt, 2012). Our results are consistent with findings from the few previous existing studies in which researchers compared the impact of the two substances and found comparable (or stronger) economic and social effects of cannabis use compared with alcohol use (Patton et al., 2007; Tucker et al., 2005)." True, it doesn't PROVE a relationship but it does provide very strong evidence of correlation. (More than likely a much stronger correlation than the dangers of second hand smoke!) |
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Posted: Mar 31, 2016 04:34 pm 
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