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magicalaurie
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"The chain of events began when a motorist discovered the starving bear next to the carcass of its mother in Salmo three weeks ago. He loaded the bear into his vehicle and delivered it to Jameson — a move the conservation office calls 'unlawful.'

'I do understand why he would do that,' sergeant Tobe Sprado said. 'But the public shouldn't be picking up wildlife unless they have the authority or permission from the conservation service. The moment someone picks up a cub it starts a chain reaction of events, and the outcome won't be palatable for most people.'

Two people most upset about the move are wildlife photographer Jim Lawrence and Blewett resident Jennifer Lount-Taylor, who befriended the bear and named it Patricia.

'I believe there have been two acts of cruelty committed today,' Lount-Taylor said. 'One towards a beautiful young bear and one towards an equally beautiful elderly woman whose hearts have needlessly been torn apart.'

Lawrence feels the same way. He was incensed by Jameson's description of the bear's removal from her property.

'Apparently Helen made a stink. At 83 I believe she could still be fierce, but to no avail. The conservation officers told her that if she didn’t unlock the gate they would have to shoot it where it was. She made them promise they would not kill it.'

True to their word, the conservation officers released it into the wild. But that's not the proper solution, according to Lawrence.

'They claimed they would tag it and release it somewhere, even though Helen made them aware it was not in good enough shape to be released nor was there adequate food this early in the year.'

The conservation office told the Star they didn't believe Patricia was a 'conflict bear' and gave her the 'benefit of the doubt' by releasing her. Across BC, bears older than a year are not allowed to be rehabilitated, and the conservation office's strategy in situations involving older bears is to 'let nature run its course.'"
http://www.nelsonstar.com/news/374384421.html

I think to "let nature run its course" includes allowing a rehabber to rehab a bear. These "conservation officers", and the government behind them are dismissing the truth that we're included in Nature, I think, and that caring for our family and our neighbours is natural.

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tommy
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"Charity is useful if it helps you gain independence." J D Rockefeller
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Pakar Ilusi
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I see both sides of the coin.

I personally feel, the authorities should have just turned a blind eye for a few months. Then enforce whatever when the Cub is strong enough.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
magicalaurie
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The bear would have been released by Helen when she was rehabilitated.
Helen's been working with wildlife for 46 years.
http://www.nelsonstar.com/news/309334241.html

Image


"Sprado is also asking for the public's assistance in identifying some residents who rescued two cubs in February and delivered them to a rehabilitation centre in Vancouver. He encouraged anyone with information to contact the RAPP number at 1-877-952-7277." Free country, Canada.
magicalaurie
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Here's a cached copy of the story since the original link seems broken now:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se......nk&gl=ca
balducci
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I'm sure Helen did good work for 46+ years. Nonetheless, in 2014 she said she was about ready to retire. She is now 83+ years old. She also said what she did was expensive and that she had a very limited income.

And the bear was assessed by a biologist: "They took Patricia to one of their biologists and had her assessed. She was judged healthy enough to survive on her own."

Should we discount the opinion of the trained biologist?

I don't know all of the facts. I'm happy if Helen is still looking after birds, rabbits, deer. If I was her neighbor, I'm not so sure I would want her looking after a bear or cougar.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Apr 5, 2016, balducci wrote:

Should we discount the opinion of the trained biologist?



You seem content enough to discount 46+ years of hands on experience.

Why wouldn't you want her looking after a bear or cougar? The only reason they didn't want her looking after this one appears to be that they didn't bring it to her and that it was older than 1 year of age. These animals aren't the automatic killers many claim they are. Fearful people need to spend a little time outside of their own ignorant human centered frame of reference and take a good solid look at the real lives and behaviours of these animals instead.

Those working in the field, more and more, are abandoning the written and unwritten status quo despite threats that come from the top down. Case in point: Bryce Casavant.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co.......3207486

Charlie Russell

Terry DeBruyn

Also, Kevin Van Tighem. http://wherethebearwalks.blogspot.ca/201......ear.html

Note this point I posted above: "Sprado is also asking for the public's assistance in identifying some residents who rescued two cubs in February and delivered them to a rehabilitation centre in Vancouver. He encouraged anyone with information to contact the RAPP number at 1-877-952-7277."
balducci
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No, I did not discount her 46+ years of experience. I did note she is elderly, ready (according to her own words) to retire, and has limited resources to look after animals. Suggesting maybe she is not the best person to look after potentially dangerous animals. I think trusting the biologist's opinion in this case was the safer call. For Helen's neighbors. Even for Helen herself.

Yeah, yeah, I know bears are our friends. I'm also familiar with Charlie Russell and Maureen Enns' work. Actually, I met one of them some years back.

I also know bears have attacked / mauled / killed people. The following is an outdated list, but good enough to make that point:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2010/......ada.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
magicalaurie
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You discounted Helen's statement that the bear was not ready for release. Thank you for making my point that many humans refuse to look outside of their own frame of reference. These animals are dangerous? They kill? That's not allowed! Why are our bodies mortal, then, balducci? They must be allowed to be killed, happens often, doesn't it? They tell me it does, at least. To all of us. That could be getting a little broad for the tunnel vision martians so I'll narrow back down by saying pot...kettle. Did you read any of the links? Your points were anticipated in them.

"In 2002, Charlie Russell made waves when his book Grizzly Heart postulated that bear aggression toward humans was often linked to human aggression toward bears...and presented solid evidence in support."

"Biologist Kevin Van Tighem spent 40 years studying wild bears in western Canada and serving as the superintendent of Banff National Park in Alberta. In 1983, his sister was severely mauled by a grizzly and suffered debilitating PTSD until she committed suicide in 2005. Van Tighem barely even makes mention of this in the book, except to note that it set him on a path to better understand what makes bears tick rather than on a path of hatred and negativity. His findings are among the most common sense ever presented."

"Throughout the book's roughly 300 page length, Van Tigham tears down the myths, legends, and monster imagery surrounding bears and shows the animal underneath."

"In doing this he shows bears for what they really are, what they do, how they think, how they act, and systematically removes the paranoia that over-exaggerated danger warnings promote. He has been face-to-face with bears of many different temperaments and drew upon those experiences to conclude that trust is the critical piece missing in the puzzle of coexistence. In closing he states that 'the most dangerous thing about a bear is not its claws, teeth, or disposition; it's how we react to it.'"

------------------------------------------------------

"Over the past four years, B.C. conservation officers killed 1,872 black bears and relocated 126, killed 352 cougars and relocated six, and killed 72 grizzly bears and relocated 24. A total of 137 black bears and six grizzlies were taken to rehabilitation facilities.

The province released 14 pages of its policy, Preventing and Responding to Conflicts With Large Carnivores, to The Vancouver Sun only after numerous requests over two weeks."


“The reality is that more human injuries and deaths are caused by bees, dogs, horses, cows, and wild ungulates than large carnivores. The narrative must be changed to allow large carnivores (and all wildlife) to be what they are and not what we want them to be,” she said.


http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/r......ory.html
LobowolfXXX
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People who agree with us are usually insightful and objective, while those who don't are usually limited by their own frame of reference.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicalaurie
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The usual, I see. How refreshing. FYI, balducci, "wild ungulates" include deer.
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Quote:
On Apr 6, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote:
People who agree with us are usually insightful and objective, while those who don't are usually limited by their own frame of reference.


Isn't this an incredible phenomenon?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Do you fellows do any reading on these threads? Note
Quote:
On Apr 5, 2016, balducci wrote:
I'm happy if Helen is still looking after birds, rabbits, deer.


Note the above cited “The reality is that more human injuries and deaths are caused by bees, dogs, horses, cows, and wild ungulates than large carnivores." and then tell me again who's paying attention to the surroundings.
LobowolfXXX
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The usual, indeed.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Does the fact that more people are killed by cows than rattlesnakes mean that rattlesnakes aren't dangerous?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicalaurie
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I already said pot... kettle. And a few other things.
LobowolfXXX
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Who's the pot, who's the kettle, and who is able or unable to look beyond his or her own point of reference?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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My favourite Grizzly, No. 122 (see one of the other bear threads) was observed eating a black bear that he had killed in 2013. Sorry, no photos but here he is eating a moose that he killed. Keep in mind how much bigger and stronger black bears are than we are, and that moose often weigh in at more than half a ton.

Image

Story here
Quote:
[Banff Wildlife biologist Steve] Michel said he suspects the kill was opportunistic.

"Grizzly bears are opportunistic hunters," he said. "They will take advantage of any food source that presents itself."

The grizzly that ate the black bear on the Sundance Canyon trail is known to conservation officers. It has been handled and radio collared in the past.


I'm in the "keep the bear-keeping to a)nature or b) well-trained and equipped professionals" camp.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
magicalaurie
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Lobo, I'm going to tell you what I need. I need you to realize that this discussion is important to me. I need you to read the thread, and the supporting links, and I need you to do that before you begin to discount everything I say. I need you to acknowledge when your points have been addressed. I answered the pot kettle question awhile back. I haven't said people can't be killed by bears.

John, I'll just refer you back to the fact that more people are killed by cows, and having worked fairly extensively with cattle, I can see why. Conservation officers have been content to bring moose to Helen. Any animal that is larger and stronger than we are has the ability to kill us. That doesn't mean it will, even if it's a bear or a cougar. Helen's raised them before, including a grizzly.

I point again to the quote from the article asking the public to identify two individuals who rescued cubs and brought them to a rehabilitation centre and how that relates to what happened with Helen because that is really the crux of this issue and I made that point in the first post when I said,

"I think to 'let nature run its course' includes allowing a rehabber to rehab a bear. These 'conservation officers', and the government behind them are dismissing the truth that we're included in Nature, I think, and that caring for our family and our neighbours is natural."
LobowolfXXX
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Saying "pot...kettle" doesn't "answer that pot kettle question." If my points get addressed, I'll acknowledge that, but it hasn't happened yet. But I do realize that sometimes I can sound cryptic, so for clarity's sake:

1. IMO, it short circuits a discussion that's important to you when you say things like "Thank you for making my point that many humans refuse to look outside of their own frame of reference." Maybe it's a coincidence that Balducci hasn't responded since that comment of yours, or maybe not. He was engaging in this important discussion; he met one of the people you cited to, he was familiar with their work, and he addressed actual points in the discussion. But remarks like that "refuse to look outside of their own frame of reference" comment tend to cut discussion off right at the knees. They suggest that the speaker is convinced that only his or her point of view is well-reasoned; you either agree, or you're ignorant.

2. Who are those "many humans" who refuse to look outside of their own frame of reference? Is it really all humans, or are there some who are capable of looking outside of their frames of reference and (presumably) come to a better understanding of the world? And if you think you're one of the latter, what's the basis for that belief? Do you think that you don't have unproven, metaphysical beliefs that you adhere to just as firmly as anyone else?

3. The number of people killed by "bees, dogs, cows, horses, and wild ungulates" has no bearing on how dangerous any other type of animal is.

I'm tempted to simply quote you from another thread... Bears die,
Quote:
On Mar 15, 2016, magicalaurie wrote:
And then... life goes on...


HOWEVER...I *do* realize that this discussion is important to you. And I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think you made some good points and cited some good information, and I think Balducci did, also. Where I live, things like this are pretty rare. I'm still thinking about it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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