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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Think of all your favourite routines, say the top 5 if have such a thing, thinking through the presentation - why did you like it so much? And with regular people, what do you think they respond to the best?
For me, things can be impressive, but not as many make me care...and making me care is the vital part for me. So do I care about you unlocking my PIN because you know the digits? Absolutely not. Maybe you hacked me. Do I care that you've told me that in a way, a smartphone is like a time capsule. It contains strong memories photographs, messages from this we love. A hundred years from now people might access them and learn about us. Then you ask me three things about me and tell me you feel like you know me. You are an expert I knowing people. You look at my phone and unlock it. I would at very least pay attention. Simple example obviously... The hook and story arc of each presentation starts with you, because you are different whether you like it or not. You are different because only YOU can do this. There is a chasm between showing off and sharing. How do you personally make them care?
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
I think the foundation of your point here is also the reason why readings are so popular. Many is the time I've read people's posts here where they've stumbled on the joy of performing an effect in the context of a reading.
How do I personally make them care? I've written stories from my character's life that resonate with some of the deepest human emotions and experiences - love, grief, trials, travels/exploration, conquering, etc. Framing my effects around these stories makes them relatable and intriguing because my audience can see themselves in those situations. I've never been backpacking around Europe. But Connor Jacobs on the stage has, and he can tell you all kinds of stories of shocks, jokes, dangers, experiences and misadventures from his 4 and a half months backpacking around Europe with friends, guided by the most wonderful tourist guide book ever written: some of you here might be able to guess the title of that book (the first word is "more"!)
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
That's a very interesting point Iain.
I think it's unfortunately relatively rare for people who get into mentalism to take it seriously as a performing art. It's really at it's core a form of acting, isn't it? Imagine someone at a bar (or worse at a paid performance) saying, "Hey do want to see some acting I just learned? I don't actually have a character or script or anything, but here's some random lines". Because of the inherently puzzling nature of "tricks" there is still a degree of entertainment value even without a good story, but it's true that the true power of the effects -- like you say, as part of a meaningful story -- is often not realized.' And not that it has to be emotional per se, after all (to continue the acting analogy) all genres of movies or plays can be done well. It doesn't have to be drama but it also doesn't have to be only comedy. This is something I've been really aware of as I write a script. To be honest, all of the parlor/stand up shows I've done in the past (not a large amount, but a handful) were basically a set list of effects. Now as I craft more of a 'show' with themes and a flow, I realize how the effects can be soo much more with proper framing and as you say, story arc.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Yeah, it doesn't have to be an in-depth monologue or heart wrenching story..i have always loved a Eugene burger-esque opening gambit. Even a simple one of "ever had a psychic experience?" It gives you a huge "in", plus instant insight into how people see things.
I need to care in some way, I want to be drawn into the experience. Doing that turns an ok effect into an amazing experience. And that's a huge difference. Being able to connect and relate makes everything else special.
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
To put it succinctly: Connection.
I use my own experiences and frame the routines around themes that resonate with me on the reasoning that if they resonate with me, they will resonate with others. I also like to purposely explore subjects that most people either don't think about often, or actively avoid, like death. I find I am usually able to hook people with curiosity in this manner, and then explore the concept together. Though I will openly admit I am still working to make my shows more theatrical and less collections of routines.
Christopher
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dmoses Inner circle 2261 Posts |
I love Iain... both his brain and his beard but I'm gonna call BS on the earnest "did you care" tack that many mentalists take.
Don't get me wrong it's a totally viable way to present this brand of tricks but it's no more or less viable than the now passe brand of psychological illusions that got everybody so excited just yesterday or the Blaine brand of "you wanna see something cool" that excited everybody the day before that. Does a comedian's jokes make you care. (I know some of you will declare: "Yes! And deeply!") but I would argue that the comedians job is to make you laugh. Period. The "thinking" "caring" stuff comes where the joke meets the truth. That said, I don't know what I'm talking about and I would much rather watch Iain perform than me perform. d
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
The best comedians hurt you with the brutal truth or make you laugh at something sad...billy Connolly, Richard Pryor...or they challenge you, bill hicks, Doug Stanhope because deep down they care about an issue, or they are just out there sharing their view on the world like Mitch hedberg or Steven wright...they are all equally good in different ways and moods...
When I say 'care' - I guess I mean pique your interest, as in, do you care what they have to say, is it interesting enough to hold your attention and does the experience stay with you? Cant remember the last time someone told me about their fantastic experience eating a McDonalds happy meal...but I hear plenty about Dirty Burger or Five Guys... Better ingredients... Love you too, Dave
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Mifune Loyal user Spain 266 Posts |
Besides from a good scriptwriting, that few mentalists delegate to professionals, I think that good acting makes the difference, it isn't a coincidence that the best mentalists are also at least passable actors. I remember a friend who did a tv appearance performing a russian roulette and I couldn't care less despite a good script. Years later, he invited me to his stage show and I saw the same effect, when he told the same story, half of the theater had wet eyes, including me, and when he pressed the trigger I, and all the audience of course, couldn't keep my eyes opened. His acting had evolved, and made the story and the effect believable and touching.
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 21, 2016, dmoses wrote: Actually, the comedians I really enjoy do make me care. Louis CK talks about some real truths that genuinely make me care about how I'm perceiving the world. Tim Michin's songs are silly, but they are also often addressing real things that really matter and I care about that. But the thing is this is just a matter of taste. There's room in the world for mentalism that's light. There's room in the world for deep performances. The light hearted performers will probably work more often, but I am more satisfied with my own performances if they share a connection with the audience on an emotional level. "There are many rooms in the house of magic."
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
dmoses Inner circle 2261 Posts |
You guys are the best... But I think the phrase
"But I feel more satisfied when..." proves my point. It's not about your audiences and what would entertain them more, it's about what would entertain and fulfill you. The two are occasionally the same... If you're lucky. D
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
TPR by Dave Moses and Iain Dunford T-shirts for Magicians and Mentalists |
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I would argue that the performer will always aim to feel fulfilled by doing a great job and making sure the audience are thoroughly entertained...HOW they do that would involve the audience enjoying themselves imo
And of course, you've got to be happy with what you are performing too..or at least can stomach it...
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C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
I don't take Iain to mean here that all mentalism has to be deep and emotionally stirring. (Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, Iain).
It's not about turning all effects into a philosophical object lesson. But it is about giving them some sort of purpose. Something that makes them interesting enough to bother watching. Making them "care" is (to me anyway) about putting things into their sphere and thus letting them enter the moment. The concept is the same as a movie. Most people don't care enough to sit and watch people walk by in the street for 2 hours, but they will watch the heightened reality of a good movie and be mentally and emotionally involved. The movie doesn't have to have deep meaning. It doesn't have to challenge or provoke. It can simply be fun. But something about it has still made the audience care, and I interpreted Iain's original question along these lines. And Dave, I love you too, but I disagree that "The two are occasionally the same... If you're lucky." As an entertainer, I delight in delighting people. If they have fun, I have fun. If they didn't like the show, I go home thinking it was a bad show. I'm not sure there's really an "occasionally" about it.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 21, 2016, dmoses wrote: I feel you're making some assumptions. A satisfied performer is more likely to be able to engage their audience and provide a unique and entertaining experience for them. My enjoyment of my performance comes through and people pick up on that energy. I personally feel that having at least part of the show be emotionally engaging is the difference between seeing a cool magician, and seeing someone who's name you remember. I see a lot of magic performances in my work. Most of them are completely interchangeable. A few of them stand out because they engaged me on a level beyond, "That was cool."
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
Let me turn this conversation on its head.
The subject of comedians has come up, and it's a telling comparison. Like magicians and mentalists, comedians are solo performers hired to entertain in many of the same venues. What isn't generally discussed is the similarity of our performance material. Jokes and tricks (sorry, effects) are made of the same stuff. Each is a little package with a surprise inside. When people are hit with that surprise, a physical reaction occurs: laughs for comedians, gasps for us. But all comedians tell jokes. So, why aren't all comedians equally funny? Here's why: because jokes themselves are just the price of entry. You can't be a comedian without them. But look at how the great comedian uses those jokes: to communicate a distinct character and worldview. That's what audiences really respond to, connect with, and come back for. More than the jokes. That's why the jokes of great comedians aren't as good when we tell them. Sometimes, they're not even, objectively, particularly good. But the fact that they share something about the comedian's perspective is what gives them power. Each is a window into the comedian's (styled for public display) soul in some way. Now, let's apply this same lesson to magicians and mentalists: tricks are the price of entry. And we're at a great disadvantage compared with comedians right out of the gate, because most of us don't invent our own tricks! Imagine a world in which all comedians are limited to telling the same jokes from a master joke book. Practically the same thing. All the more reason why expressing your character and worldview are so important. Yes, you should want an audience to care. But first, you must have something to say. Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
For me, part of the caring side, IS having something to say...what you have to say is what makes them care
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
In my opinion, what you have to say should be who you are and what, in very specific terms, makes *you* care.
Hopefully, that will ladder up to a universal truth to which your audience members will relate, so they too may care. But in my book, that's the second step.
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
I agree with everyone.
I enjoy watching coin magic but I don't care just because I love money. Could also depend why you are watching. Sometimes I just want to turn my brain off and be entertained. Hopefully you guys love what you do.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
David Copperfield does it very well. (He and his writers of course... )
Cases in point, his routines Snow, Grandpa, Portal etc... Illusion, Close up and Mentalism as well. I salute and love him for that!
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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