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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Polarity by Pablo Amira (52 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mystification
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I wish we were so quick to "police" everyone equally....but unfortunately, depending on how big a name you are determines whether or not you can "recreate" someone else's work. Okay, rant over.
Atlas
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On May 24, 2016, Mystification wrote:
I wish we were so quick to "police" everyone equally....but unfortunately, depending on how big a name you are determines whether or not you can "recreate" someone else's work. Okay, rant over.


There was an interesting thread about what was worthy of release a few years ago, to which I contributed my views:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......501365#9

I'll quote from a bit of it:

"Innovation - In my opinion, a number of things have been released over the years that are frankly devoid of any snippet of innovation. This thread is evidence of similar observations in others, and I think that there is a tremendous difference between an actual step forward and an example of fine routining. I personally feel that if what you have to offer is clever routining, it ought to be submitted to the creator of the effect you have drawn from and the idea can be released in the form of a supplement, or disseminated with the creator's permission. It is honest and honorable and denotes respect for what they have shared with you.

I can think of at least four routines over the last six months that I have taken the time sit down and type out and then share for free with others who had purchased the effect from the creator. If I were avaricious, I would plop these ideas down in an eBook and sell them a week after I came up with my plot or interpretation of the effect. And I think a lot of people who are releasing things right now don't recognize the difference between an innovation and a subtle and clever bit of routining. I feel that only innovations should be released, whereas routining should be shared as it is an extension of another person's idea.

In fact, as many of you can attest, when I have shared ideas that have their roots in my routining, I will pointedly reference the proper effect, and not detail any process that is proprietary to the creator. Why would it be necessary to share a process in the outline of my routining when I should be confident that the person I am sharing it with owns the effect in question and does not need to be walked through whatever takes place?"

These have been and remain my views on the subject. Big name or not, it looks like Pablo is working on sorting things out.

Best,

Atlas
pegasus
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So was this originally a Marlo effect? If so what's the problem?? Smile
Amirá
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Quote:
On May 24, 2016, pegasus wrote:
So was this originally a Marlo effect? If so what's the problem?? Smile


Hi pegasus, yes, it is an original idea by Marlo but I should approach the original creators who market the effect thru Camirand and not just the company for the sake of respect and good practices of communication and respect.

Best
Pablo
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Tom Cutts
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With all respect Pablo,

Here is the issue in all this. When you take a product which already exists and put a new name on it (regardless of the presentation added), you disrespect not only your customers but also the history of magic. Big Blind Media did this with the Mene Tekel Deck. Others have done it as well.

In your case, the proper thing to do was to buy or lease the rights to the name Proton Deck and release it as Proton Deck 2.0 with a flashy new demo, and new handlings and effects possible. The only reason to rename an existing product is to make sales to those who already know the thing you are renaming.

Or simply put, you need better advisors on your team.
Lseeyou
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Quote:
On May 23, 2016, Amirá wrote:
Polarity offer a new routine from an existing concept as the Proton Deck and for that same reason I think that is valid as a new release


We can all think that we are right but in the end we discover that we made a mistake... if everyone here start to think of new ideas to use with already released material just to release it as a new effect is way wrong!
Pablo you know it is... c'mon. I've seen this more than once coming from you e.g. material released in ebooks that's from other performers.

Releasing this as Proton Deck 2.0 is a great valid point Tom!
davidmag
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Have to a agree with Tom and Lseeyou. Not good Pablo,not good...
Amirá
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I understand the points of view that can appear in here guys. Again I take full responsibility of not contacting Jean at the beginning and being relaxed to contact Camirand.
If you feel that is necessary to still blame me, do it, I understand. My intention again is to give constructive ideas for the interested mystery perfomer.

All the best
Pablo
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Mentalism Center: The best online space to get quality Mentalism
www.mentalismcenter.com

Arkanosophy: The Boutique for Mystery Performers
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1KJ
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Pablo,

There are people who love to sit back and judge. It is possible that there was a mistake made on your part. I don't think any one on this thread is innocent of ever having made a mistake.

Simply work it out with Jean to make this right and problem solved.

This is something for you to solve with Jean, period.

All the best to you in working this out.

KJ
Mystification
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Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are.
IanB
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Quote:
On May 25, 2016, Mystification wrote:
Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are.


Agree with this Mystification. It happens a great deal.

As I mentioned in a previous post it amazes me how "named" magicians jump on the "praise a product" bandwagon and then disappear into the sunset when products are put into question.

As an owner of the Proton Deck since it was first released, I have now purchased Polarity so I cannot be accused of making comment on something I have no genuine knowledge of.

IMHO the routine offered is no major advancement on the original and as Jean stated earlier was probably better being added to the pamphlet or as also stated obtaining correct permission and releasing "Proton Deck 2.0".

At least I have a spare Proton Deck now ...
Fatgumbo
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If this is just an expansion on an ed marlo principle, then in my opinion, just a credit to the creator of the proton deck is needed. Others have stated here that it is a vast improvement on the existing proton deck.
saysold1
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Quote:
On May 24, 2016, Tom Cutts wrote:
With all respect Pablo,

Here is the issue in all this. When you take a product which already exists and put a new name on it (regardless of the presentation added), you disrespect not only your customers but also the history of magic. Big Blind Media did this with the Mene Tekel Deck. Others have done it as well.

In your case, the proper thing to do was to buy or lease the rights to the name Proton Deck and release it as Proton Deck 2.0 with a flashy new demo, and new handlings and effects possible. The only reason to rename an existing product is to make sales to those who already know the thing you are renaming.

Or simply put, you need better advisors on your team.


100% agree.

I think at least part of the blame here is the "Murphy's hype machine."

Lets put anything we can in the Daiquiri blender and see if we can sell it as something new and delicious.

I've owned Proton deck over 20 years and knew instantly when I watched the demo what I was seeing even before reading the thread.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
Artie Fufkin
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Quote:
On May 25, 2016, Fatgumbo wrote:
If this is just an expansion on an ed marlo principle, then in my opinion, just a credit to the creator of the proton deck is needed. Others have stated here that it is a vast improvement on the existing proton deck.


Actually, nobody in this thread (not even Pablo himself) has stated any such thing.
pegasus
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Quote:
On May 25, 2016, Mystification wrote:
Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are.


So very true.
AceFace
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Is there any chance we can see some reviews on this effect....I have ordered because I don't own a proton deck and the demo looks really cool. I take it there must be other effects that can be done with this deck,can anyone point me in the right direction so I can learn any other effects with this deck
Many thanks
Atlas
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On May 30, 2016, AceFace wrote:
I take it there must be other effects that can be done with this deck,can anyone point me in the right direction so I can learn any other effects with this deck
Many thanks


It seems clear that if you owned the Proton Deck, you could do this as well as the effects that were marketed along with the Proton deck. Why didn't you buy that instead? Asking now how to do other effects with this seems backwards.

Best,

Atlas
pegasus
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Because the Proton deck is not available in the UK AFAIK
AceFace
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That's exactly why I don't own a proton deck...cant find it anywhere!!!!!
Artie Fufkin
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Nobody seems to be making a legitimate Proton Deck and marketing it as such currently.

If you're DIY inclined, and you're only making a Proton Deck for your personal use, they're not that difficult to construct.

Hopefully we'll get some sort of update here telling us all relevant permissions have been acquired, which would mean you could (in good conscience) purchase Polarity in order to get your hands on a Proton Deck.

Currently, sites like Penguin still only note that Polarity was "inspired" by the Proton Deck, when in reality it actually IS a Proton Deck, so we're definitely not where we should be just yet.
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