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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can you be a magician and mentalist?? (127 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Let's look at the definitions (As I always recommend)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism

This link puts David Copperfield on the same level as The Amazing Kreskin !!!!!!



Yes, it refers them both as magicians! Not surprised you didn't actually quote the Wikipedia article because it directly contradicts your silly notion that Copperfield is a mentalist. Here's the very section you conveniently neglected to mention:

Quote:
...However, many magicians mix mentally-themed performance with magic illusions. For example, a mind-reading stunt might also involve the magical transposition of two different objects. Such hybrid feats of magic are often called mental magic by performers. Magicians who routinely mix magic with mental magic include David Copperfield, David Blaine, The Amazing Kreskin, and Dynamo.
Slim King
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Exactly ... Copperfield is just like Kreskin!!!!! Kreskin was a Hypnotist first. He also does card tricks .. I've seen him do them. The card tricks don't prevent him from being a mentalist. I've personally worked with Copperfield and he IMHO is a fantastic Mind Reader. His presentations are flawless. His mind reading skills are better than anyone I've ever seen with the exception of J. C..... a VIP here on the Café. So to answer the question of the OP .. YES ... You can be both. Many performers do it. In fact I've seen Mentalists do balloon work!!!!! Being a good magician does not disqualify you from being a good mentalist.

I myself separate the two in performance for obvious reasons. Neither do I give a disclaimer.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Twisted Mentat
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Giedi Prime
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:
I myself separate the two in performance for obvious reasons. Neither do I give a disclaimer.

And the reason is that you are a troll? Smile
Just kidding.
Axel
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Berlin
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Exactly ... Copperfield is just like Kreskin!!!!! Kreskin was a Hypnotist first. He also does card tricks .. I've seen him do them. The card tricks don't prevent him from being a mentalist. I've personally worked with Copperfield and he IMHO is a fantastic Mind Reader. His presentations are flawless. His mind reading skills are better than anyone I've ever seen with the exception of J. C..... a VIP here on the Café. So to answer the question of the OP .. YES ... You can be both. Many performers do it. In fact I've seen Mentalists do balloon work!!!!! Being a good magician does not disqualify you from being a good mentalist.

I myself separate the two in performance for obvious reasons. Neither do I give a disclaimer.



Man, this sounds quite manic...
mastermindreader
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Nah, Axel, this is just Slim's trolling style. He ignores any facts that prove him wrong and then just keeps repeating the same thing over and over ad nauseum. He has never, as far as I can recall, admitted to being wrong about anything, whether he understands a topic or not.

The next stage will be more of the same, but with lots of exclamation points and dancing fruits and vegetables.
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
...However, many magicians mix mentally-themed performance with magic illusions. For example, a mind-reading stunt might also involve the magical transposition of two different objects. Such hybrid feats of magic are often called mental magic by performers.


Ah yes, there is little more convincing then those "mind-reading stunts"! Isn't the real issue when people place mental effect into the "hybrid" category with the solid implication that it is ultimately a "trick"? It MUST be viewed as a totally separate process and ability.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Axel
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Berlin
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:
Nah, Axel, this is just Slim's trolling style. He ignores any facts that prove him wrong and then just keeps repeating the same thing over and over ad nauseum. He has never, as far as I can recall, admitted to being wrong about anything, whether he understands a topic or not.

The next stage will be more of the same, but with lots of exclamation points and dancing fruits and vegetables.


I've seen him do it quite often.I just don't understand what motivates him.
IAIN
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:
...and dancing fruits and vegetables.


there's a joke waiting to be said...i shall just mentally transmit it whilst producing sponge rabbits from inside a sealed envelope...
Slim King
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Axel wrote:
Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Exactly ... Copperfield is just like Kreskin!!!!! Kreskin was a Hypnotist first. He also does card tricks .. I've seen him do them. The card tricks don't prevent him from being a mentalist. I've personally worked with Copperfield and he IMHO is a fantastic Mind Reader. His presentations are flawless. His mind reading skills are better than anyone I've ever seen with the exception of J. C..... a VIP here on the Café. So to answer the question of the OP .. YES ... You can be both. Many performers do it. In fact I've seen Mentalists do balloon work!!!!! Being a good magician does not disqualify you from being a good mentalist.

I myself separate the two in performance for obvious reasons. Neither do I give a disclaimer.



Man, this sounds quite manic...


Manic??? ... because I have a difference of opinion? Or because I walk the walk?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
MagicalEducator
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Some would say no but just because they say it with conviction doesn't make it so. One can do magic, mentalism all within the same character. There will be those that oppose this notion and despite the fact that some most famous mentalists have done so. These inconvenient facts won't dissuade them from their fervent beliefs. Most intelligent people know it's a trick...as in magic. Watch as they gather to defend their sacred art and in doing so denigrate magic and magicians. It's so typical and tedious.

Jeff
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
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"Magic is Education" @
www.VanishMagazine.com
mastermindreader
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The famous mentalists who have done so were already firmly established as mentalists. That's the inconvenient fact that magicians who think the art forms can be indiscriminately mixed.

And I'd like to see JUST ONE example of my ever denigrating magicians. I've always loved magic.

I do see a lot of snide mentalist bashing here, though.
Mindpro
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And even giving him the benefit of the doubt in believing you can mix magic and mentalism, that does not mean you should or it is in your best interest, without concern or incidence. You can drive a motorcycle nude through a zoo too, bit that doesn't mean you should or it;'s in your best interests.

Again all of this talk is from the "me" or "I" perspective. This is fine and great for all of you opinionated theorists, armchair mentalists and non-performers. But as real performers know, your own interests and desires are the least significant when working with agents, promoters, venues, clients and paying audiences.
Slim King
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Mixing magic and mentalism has worked for David Copperfield... It appears it was also in his best interest as his net worth approaches a Billion Dollars. (Currently over $800 million)
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Axel
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:

(...)

Manic??? ... because I have a difference of opinion? Or because I walk the walk?


No, sorry.
Not because you "walk the walk" and not because you have a different opinion.
It is not the content of what you write. It is the form you choose to use.

If you really would want to have a discussion with others then this writing-style makes no sense to me.
You are jumping from one conclusion to another, not really listening to anybody and are most of the time kind of "screaming" in your writing.
This would only make sense to me if you intentionally wanted to provoke people.
And I can't for the life of me figure out where you take the time from, the motivation and the energy to do something like that on a forum like this in your spare time.

I really don't understand what you are doing and what motivates you.
Sorry.
Axel
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Mixing magic and mentalism has worked for David Copperfield... It appears it was also in his best interest as his net worth approaches a Billion Dollars. (Currently over $800 million)


Exactly as I said earlier. Still intentionally ignoring the point that a mental effect is not mentalism when presented in the context of a magic show, and in full troll mode, you simply start saying the same thing over and over again. Now adding non sequitors like his net worth.
SolidSnake
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Let's flip it. Is a magic effect mentalism when presented in the context of a mentalism show?
There is no holy grail!
Alexxander
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I think that depends - I have seen people use traditional magic effects framed as mentalism or hypnosis.
And that can work.
But other than that, I don't think it's well advised... a magic trick could make the audience wonder whether everything in the show is just an illusion.
Mindpro
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Going back to the title of this thread and the initial topic, let me ask, why? Why would you want to be a magician and a mentalist?

Also it's always great, and a true sign of a baiting thread, when the OP doesn't continue their own participation in the thread they've started.
Slim King
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Quote:
On Jun 1, 2016, Mindpro wrote:
Going back to the title of this thread and the initial topic, let me ask, why? Why would you want to be a magician and a mentalist?

Also it's always great, and a true sign of a baiting thread, when the OP doesn't continue their own participation in the thread they've started.

I agree and I don't agree. Many of the newbies taken to task here on the Café drop out.They are attacked by the same group of members, made to feel small and marginalized ....So they drop out.
You may call it baiting ... But this guy honestly had a question and he has been steam rolled by the regular group. It's so sad to see this. It's killing the Café. Intolerance of different ideas....Sad.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
mastermindreader
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No Slim, It's trolling like yours that is the problem. The OP's question was answered politely and accurately before the thread was hijacked by you.
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