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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can you be a magician and mentalist?? (127 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Sleepymentalism wrote:
Thanks for all the responses.... I have used the search function for this question before but it didn't fill me the way I wanted it to..anyway.. I am fairly new to mentalism as most for you know...however I've been doing magic for 7 years... And I'm really not sure if I should make a transition, stay doing magic or do mentalism and Magic...I mean it can be done...David Copperfield did both...yh....

Sleepy


If you think what David Copperfield does is mentalism, you don't really have any idea what mentalism is. David does MENTAL MAGIC.
Ed_Millis
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Quote:
David Copperfield did both

Quote:
But you are not Copperfield

Exactly what I was going to say!!
When you've got the years of experience and character-formation that Copperfield has, then you can do what he does.

I'm coming from a magician's background, and I've got several "mental magic tricks". Which is why I am making very sure I know where the line is and how to stay on one side or the other before I dare try to call anything "mentalism".

Before you simply try to imitate what your heroes *do*, why not pay attention to the process that made them who they *are*, and thus able to do what they can do?

Ed
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Ed_Millis wrote:
Before you simply try to imitate what your heroes *do*, why not pay attention to the process that made them who they *are*, and thus able to do what they can do?

Ed


Brilliant. Truer words have never been spoken.
mastermindreader
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Sleepy- You say you've been doing magic for seven years, without mentioning that you are only about fifteen years old. You are at a stage where you really should be listening to those with literally decades of professional experience rather than trying to tell them what's what about mixing magic and mentalism.
Mindpro
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Can't listen when doing so much talking.


This generation of newbies challenging long-time experienced working pros is both saddening and sickening and the industry at it's worst. I regularly hear from teachers that say the same is happening in the classroom as well.
Tom Cutts
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"They refuse your path, and they will take their own route to get there, but they will arrive at someplace uniquely their own." An artist's path.
SolidSnake
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I'm sure I read a mentalist manuscript once that had card through window as an effect.
There is no holy grail!
Slim King
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David Copperfield performs some of the best mentalism in the world Twice a Night and Three times on matinee days .. SEVEN DAYS A WEEK usually for sold out crowds of 1000 averaging $150 per ticket. He performs his updated version of The Wizard is Back which is a very good MENTALISM effect that was demonstrated and developed here on the Café itself on this very section of the forum about a decade ago. Just because Copperfield is the greatest magician of our era doesn't mean he's not a Fantastic Mentalist! David Copperfield has performed more mentalism for more people than any performer alive. (Unless one of you performs for more than 60,000 fans a month) Copperfield has been performing at the MGM for 15 years straight now .... Smile I first saw him on tour 25 years ago or so. I caught his show 4 times last year. He's one of the best mentalists ever! (Also a fantastic magician) Smile

So to answer your initial question .... If you have the chops of Copperfield ... YES!!!!! Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
SolidSnake
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I'm not sure that performing a mentalism effect makes you a mentalist
There is no holy grail!
danielwk
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I used to do be a magician and started learning mentalism when I was 16. I started performing only mentalism when I turned 20-21 but I still do few magic tricks sometimes at gigs, mostly just one effect if it happens. However, I do not think it is a good idea to perform magic and mentalism together all the time since everything would be perceived as a trick. If it is just one magic effect you are performing I think you could get away with it if you educate the audience that what you will show them next is a trick, while the rest of the performance had no trickery involved.
Mindpro
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I'm betting even if you asked Copperfield he would be the first to tell you he is not a mentalist and doesn't want to be seen as one.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, SolidSnake wrote:
I'm not sure that performing a mentalism effect makes you a mentalist


UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE MILLENNIUM!!!
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On May 31, 2016, SolidSnake wrote:
I'm not sure that performing a mentalism effect makes you a mentalist


UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE MILLENNIUM!!!


This is SUCH a valuable concept! You can call yourself a mentalist but that doesn't mean you are perceived as one by the viewer. It's the same for any artform. The term "Mentalist" is something that is awarded to you by the audience when you've earned it. It's more about perception then what you want to claim.

The "Star" performer is a different category as they are seen as an "exceptional artist" in many ways and have skills that transcend definitions and labels. David Copperfield (although an amazing illusionist) never really fit into this category for me as much as David Blaine did. David B. had an aura about him that created a mystique about his "powers". The other one that more powerfully does this you probably haven't heard of yet. His name is Ahmed el Bayed who is a big star in the Middle East. The common thought over there is that he has special powers but conceals them by doing magic tricks so he can blend into society. lol... I'm not kidding, that is how he is actually perceived! It allows him to shift into any type of effect with ease and be totally believable.

Unfortunately, not everyone can pull off those characters so we need to focus on one cohesive image that the audience can accept.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
mastermindreader
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Slim- You keep using the odd phrase "mentalism effects" and then jump to the conclusion that anyone who performs them is, therefore, a mentalist.

The effects are called "mental effects." (As in "Practical Mental Effects.")Whether or not they are mentalism or mental magic depends on who's doing them and the context in which they are performed.

Copperfield, as everyone seems to understand except you, is a famous magician who sometimes includes mental effects in his magic show. He has NEVER held himself out to be a mentalist.

Why do you insist on trolling this topic whenever it comes up?
Slim King
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Let's look at the definitions (As I always recommend)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism

This link puts David Copperfield on the same level as The Amazing Kreskin !!!!!!

A person who performs mentalism is a mentalist ... it's just that simple .. Even though he's the greatest magician of our era.

I know it's sour grapes for many of you ...but it's a fact.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mentalist

http://www.yourdictionary.com/mentalisth......entalist
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Mindpro
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But he doesn't perform mentalism. He is a magician that perform mental effects.
Slim King
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Quote:
On May 30, 2016, Sleepymentalism wrote:
I'm likely to anger a lot of people by writing this....its 3am in the morning so please if my English is a bit off its because I'm tired...

Anyway.. I've heard many many many times on the Café people saying how you can't be a magician and mentalist at the same time due to the immense contrast in the performances....however I disagree to am extent...IMO you can definitely be a magician and mentalist at the same time...HOWEVER,you have to make sure your audience knows the difference between both and you need to separate them so as not to oerfrom mentalism whilst the audience thinking its magic....I know 99% of people will disagree with me

And I would love to hear your opinions...

Sleepy

I agree ... A person can be a Dr. and a Lawyer. Nothing prevents them. In the same way a person can be a Magician and a Mentalist.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
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Slim King
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Quote:
On May 31, 2016, IAIN wrote:
Https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqviqsmgcCA

Exactly ... a person can play both Pop and Blues!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
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You've failed this troll attempt...better luck next time!
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