|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
I guess we don't need to run the contest now.
And can we let Micheal exert his own will. Oh, by the by I had a layman watch the last video. The immediate comment was, "Boy, he's good." I didn't hear, "Where are those coins going." The audience did not say, "He did a good job with that bird." They said, "WHERE DID THE BIRD GO?" They as in many people from the audience. You people do not listen to your audiences.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
I had heard Micky was going to do an L&L shoot. What happened to that?
Makes me think of some shoots at L&L. I have been to L&L for several. At one of them one of the attractive ladies volunteered something to me. On a break standing behind the cameras, she said, “You are different than other performers that have appeared here. When I watch you do magic, I don’t see anything funny. With all the other performers here, I always see something funny or odd.” Here is a bit about the L&L shoots. While filming the performer, they also film the audience. When the performer does a bad, the editor edits that out and replaces it with a view of the audience. If you have an L&L video, check it out. I guess my point here is I hear a lot of talk about who is best and how great someone is. I don't hear much about interacting with the audience or what they believe or see. It appears you watch yourself in the mirror and blink when you do a move. Now, you might find this strange but I have an example concerning Karrell Fox. Understand he is one of the magicians I have admired all my life. I wish I could command the stage like he does. However, in watching him perform, I observe that he has practiced cutting the rope for his show many many times in front of a mirror. During all of the shows in which he cuts the rope, he closes his eyes when he does the move. Lance Burton does a similar thing. He was at one time became accustomed to looking at a mirror while he practiced his dove moves. When he performed he had a ghost look on his face as he looked out at the audience not focusing his eyes. His producers noticed this and thought it gave him a mysterious look. I got this bit of information while talking to him.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 22, 2017, Al Schneider wrote: Al Regarding studying what our audiences actually think about our effects: when I make coins appear in someone's hand (as the climax to coins across), sometimes I hear "huh, how come I didn't feel the coins multiply in my hands?" My mistake is not asking them to elaborate, because it might have shed some light on what they were thinking regarding what just happened. Usually, I just BS them by saying "Oh, that's why it's magic, right? Physical laws are violated." Yet, It makes me wish that I could do a coins across in someone's hand and then have them actually feel the stack of coins growing thicker in their hand. I would blink during my classic pass (with cards), I caught this on film and it took awhile to eliminate the bad habit. Fortunately I don't have this with coins, but I would stiffen up my shoulders every time I was about to do certain sleights. This was very difficult to fix, and required me to really own the sleights, not just master them. Interesting enough, one of my favorite comedians, Jim Norton, would blink while delivering his punchlines. Really makes you think... |
|||||||||
Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Al, you are all welcome to run your contest. I see no need, because in the end it will all look like your video.I did not mean to derail this thread,just wanted to illustrate my point. I posted two examples of how you give an answer to your audience where the coins went - you tell them, you show them. You may or may not agree with this opinion, but it is one I believe in. I use my own retention techniques, because that is the style of magic I feel most comfortable with using. I will not use a vanish of say, Mickey Silver, because that style does not work for me. Some may critique his other hand position after the vanish, but I worked with Mickey in Italy and watched him entrance an entire crowd with his work. His mannerisms are unique to him, and his vanish works for him. And because it works for him, the audience doesn't think, "the coin is in his other hand". They think, "where did the coin go?". He directs his audience as well, by vanishing the coin from one hand, simultaneously producing a coin with the other. I don't think people are thinking, "He hides one and produces the other". I think they laugh, and just enjoying themselves.I use Mickey as an example, because I have heard people comment about his use of finger palm. And as I said, that works for him very well.
But as I said, his vanish wouldn't work for me, and neither would Roth's, Vernon's, Slydinis,or Schneider's. Because it wouldn't match my performing style, my pace, my movements. And it may not work for you either. People here on the Café have trashed the ROPS move, for example, saying it looks like I stole the coin out of the hand, or saying it is not natural to tap the coin. They may or may not be right, but it works for me, and solves a problem for me.If I felt my audience did not appreciate the illusion, I would not use it.And that goes for all of the moves I use in a routine. When I find something in the routine isn't working, I have to fix it. I do this by finding a better way. That is how my magic evolves. I think people posting individual retention passes will invite unnecessary criticism, and promote hurt feelings. If you do a retention pass, great. Use it well. But do you really want to put it up here and have people point out why they don't like it? I don't see how that can be a positive thing. All the vanish techniques we post will have good and bad points. But the fundimental point is will it look like a coin was placed in the hand. I am guessing that most will. Ok, I am going to get off of my soapbox, and let others post what they want. I hope I was able to convey my opinion, in a positive and instructive way.
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
|||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Micheal
Is Mickey the top coin guy in the world?
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
Let's try to organize reactions in a magic prestation :
He manipulates coins very very well < I see Nothing and I was near him < He's good < Where are the coins going ? < Where are MY coins going ? < What has happened to MY coin ? |
|||||||||
Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Al,Here is my thought regarding your question. Mickey doing the Human Slot Machine is a reputation maker. He will be booked at magic conventions all over just for doing that one routine. Giacomo Bertini uses a pinky technique that has made him a reputation. He has gotten booked all over the world because of his unique style. Kainoa Harbottle has made a reputation by teaching deep edge grip,mutobe palm, and his steeplechase discrepancy. He gets booked all over. Lawrens Godons of France has developed a unique style by exploiting back finger palm, and has earned a reputation. Eric Jones has found out how to exploit social media to increase his following, appealing to a new young generation. His use of gaffs has earned him accolades. However, to be considered the top coin guy in the world, one must be very well rounded, and be able to demonstrate more than just a unique style. He must continue to evolve, and demonstrate a well rounded body of work. He must be able to advance the art. He should be around long enough to prove he is not a flash in the pan. There are only a few magicians with coins who can meet my criteria. Of the people I mentioned, only Kainoa in my opinion has moved toward that discussion. Others not mentioned are already there. I hope that diplomatically answers your question, and doesn't derail this thread.
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
A lot of people seems to think that a retention vanish is the best way to make a coin disapears. So they use a lot of time to perfect it. Then they use it in their tricks.
Imagine that I use a poor technically done false transfer in a very well structured routine. What is best? I don't know but we can think about it ... I think the best way to create magic is to STRUCTURE a routine with laymen reactions in mind (What is the information I wanted them to receive / What kind of emotions I wanted them to have / Can they describe my routine after seing it / When they describe it, do they refer to the emotion they have experience or do they simply describe facts ...) My int of view is that the quality of an effect dépends (only or essentially) of the kind of "emotion" it creates (amazement / surprise / laugh / mystery sensation ...) as far as they have integrated the impossibility of the effect Structure(with laymen reactions in mind ) comes first ... |
|||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Micheal
So, you agree with the following: "MICKEY SILVER IS THE GREATEST COINWORKER OF THE 20TH CENTRY AND 21 CENTRY AND INCLUDESD Slydini..... now this is a bold statement, but what he does with the coins has never been done before vinny" Jiceh Keep up the good work.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
Now, something very interesting :
1 - Show some condition : The coin is in the RH : The LH is empty 2 - Perform some action : a retention transfer into the RH 3 - Show a resulting condition different from an expecting condition : The LH is empty 4 - The audience reviews steps 1, 2 and 3 5 - The audience comes to the conclusion that they are fooled If I use "misdirection" in step 2 (looking at the audience during the transfer), Il loose information or I dilute it. So it's better to put attention on the move. Obviously Al Schneider doesn't arrive to this conclusionand and he's right but it will be interesting to have his conclusions. My opinion is that in a well done "false transfer" there are severals informations : The coin was in my RH / I put it in my LH / the RH is empty (even if I don't show it) ... When we use "misdirection" (control of attention is a better expression as said T Wonder), we "erase" a part of the information (the transfer of the coin) and we keep the last information (the coin is in the LH). So using misdirection is not a bad thing. It is still coherent with A.S. theory. Using a retention transfer permits to have a flash of the coin after the transfer so, at first sight, it seems better than a classic false transfer but as the information is the most important thing (the coin is in the LH), it is not the case (because the main information is the same in the 2 situations). If you use a ruse (doing a regular transfer) before executing the false transfer, it is a good thing because the second transfer (false) makes an echo to the first one (real) and the 2 pictures melt into one in the Spectator's mind. But, there is still a problem. Using the ruse put enphasize on the fact that the objet was transfered... @Al Schneider, I'm viewing your video (The A S tecnique vol1) and it is a real pleasure ... one of my favorites videos from L&L (with the Vernon's revelations series and the T Wonder trilogy) I am learning the basic vanish (which is all but basic) but as I don't use a table, I must change the way the RH falls after the transfer. Can you give tips on that point? |
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
Maybe an other reponse from the AS technique vol 1.
When you transfer a coin from one hand to the other, you don't look at your hands (experience with the coins above the head). So if you look at your hands during the transfer it is "dissonant" in the Spectator's mind. It is not natural. But transfering the coin without looking at is is. So the fact that you are not looking at your hand during a false transfer is an echo of naturaless. When the Spectator watchs the picture at the instant of the transfer, he sees the magician lookind at him and doing a transfer in the background. So he looks at the magician doing the transfer (echoing the magician's attitude) and he keeps the information of the position of the coin after the transfer. Is retention as important as we think? |
|||||||||
Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hmmm...I don't think that I would say anyone is the greatest. 🤔 Though I respect and understand the deep recognition and appreciation of Mickey Silver, I more specifically think this... I think he is certainly one of the very best I've seen, and I'm talking about a lot more than just his SUV/ROV...The guy is a tremendous and unique coin worker, one very hard to forget or lose in a crowd of other fine workers. He makes me think of the old Sesame Street song, "One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong, Can you tell which thing is not like the others. By the time I finish my song?" Anyone remember that?
As Doc points out, there are a lot of people out there that have tremendous abilities to do a variety of things, and they typically specialize in a particular area where they may excel more than most. I've seen a variety of coin workers in my journey, really the big, small, and all in one venue or other, and I enjoy them all for what they do. Most can do more than what they typically show or are known for and can do it well. To me, a top guy is a guy that can do it all well, not just coins. With all due respect to the names mentioned, guys like David Stone or even Jay Sankey would be very hard to overcome. They are as good whether they pick up a coin or a deck of cards, amongst other things. To me, that is to be "very well rounded," and that they are tremendously adept at coins as well, gives them more appeal and as such, reputation. In just speaking of coins (and of course with all due respect) I find it hard to discern...It typically comes down to what you like, opinion, etc. Are you talking about the more technical handling of coins, like a perhaps a Ponta The Smith maybe, or maybe you're speaking of elegance, or maybe a more intellectual approach like Ramsay, or perhaps coin creativity like a Sylvester The Jester, or the ability to do, teach and academically leave a trail as to what you do like a David Roth...Hmmmm. There's just so much and many to consider, and the use of the term "greatest" typically leaves out a lot you might know about and a lot you may not. For instance, the larger consensus believes Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever, but some now think Lebron James, or older heads can't see beyond the absolute domination of Wilt Chamberlain and or Kareem Abdul Jabbar....Hey, remember when Dr. J was the greatest - Had you ever seen anything like that??? All great and accomplished, but "the greatest???" It depends. If you set up certain parameters to determine what you think is the greatest, well, then you will typically lead horses that way as per how you think and believe. Other such Free Thinkers, considering but also investigating for themselves might think otherwise and pick a very different leader of the pack. Heck, you might pick a guy because he is of a favorite or noted school of thinking as things, while another gifted practitioner may be from the streets. Or, he might just be somebody you like for a variety of reasons. There are people that think what they did is the greatest a thing that has ever been done, and they are ready to prove it to you if you don't think so. You got folks that would say that the journey and accomplishment of Slydini with coins cannot be compared to some smart-enough kid that handles coins really well now. Of course you can always resort back to it simply being your opinion, based upon what you think and have experienced. It's like saying what's the greatest car ever created. Different things appeal to different folks. With that, I have seen and enjoyed many wonderful coin workers, many right here on our Café. They have come from everywhere and nowhere special, and some have been quite unique to speak of. I can think of many moments from many of them out there that have made me smile and say "WOW!" and "thank you" in deep appreciation and recognition on my journey.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
|||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Jiceh
You honor me. You are really getting this stuff.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
MB you noticed I said coin worker,,,,,he entertains the audience better than any one I have ever seem..
one day at the magic castle I was talking t with martin nash, I introduced mickey to martin....afer mickey demonstarated some of his routines Martain said he has seen them all including Slydini and goshman . but none better than mickey.... vinny |
|||||||||
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
Ladies and gentlemen
The dynamic duo has spoken. Mickey Silver has been declared the best coin worker in this and the previous century. All hail the dynamic duo.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
|
|||||||||
fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
The subject seems to retention passes, so can I join in?
I would never do this kind of false transfer without misdirection. True, the burn on it can be convincing, but is that a magician thing or layman thing? I can practice by looking in a mirror and it may look fine to me, but will it seem that way to real people? My feeling is that misdirection will not obscure the vanish, it is seen by the audience that you put the coin in your hand. They might not see the burn, but they will see you put the coin in the hand. Depends on your style of misdirection, of course. If you tell everyone to close their eyes then they wont see it. But if you are just talking to them, like you have been since the beginning, then they will see it. If anything looks like you are "doing something" it's a retention pass. |
|||||||||
Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 23, 2017, vinsmagic wrote: I hear'ya Vin, Mickey is certainly a unique coin worker alright, one of the best. *Oh, and of course you can join in fonda, there's room here for everyone.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 23, 2017, vinsmagic wrote: ... and Vernon said he had never seen someone better than David Roth. Who has the good answer : Vernon or nash? So now we have 2 magicians at the first place ... and we can find a lot of other ones. David Roth is great magician without a doubt and Mickey Silver too. But the question "who is the best" is totally without interest. Let's enjoy these performers without putting them in a sterile competition Magic must go on |
|||||||||
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 23, 2017, Al Schneider wrote: Happy to honor you ;-) Have you some lecture projects on the web? It can be great ... There good lectures at Penguin (Tom Stone, Tamariz) ... |
|||||||||
fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Thanks MB, glad to be here. Haven't been around much, as you know.
I don't know who is the best, but I saw Al Schneider do his Osmosis and it was extremely magical. At no time does he ever appear to "do a move," and it looked like, of all things, magic. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Video for retention vanish (39 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |