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Dannydoyle
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I don't think ignoring it makes sense. But making it the only thing makes no sense either. These people have been at war with Americans and since we are all created equal that included those who are gay. Why is this such a bad thing?

They can be gay Americans, people of color, or any distinction you like I just think including them rather than parsing out was the whole point?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Slim King wrote:

It was an ISIS attack and it is 100% proven that ISIS wants to kill gays and lesbians. The terrorist had also targeted Disney according to his wife but decided to do this instead. (That's what I read in the media, but the media is wrong on several points. The weapon wasn't even an AR 15 ... It was something else. so who really knows)

Oh Lord. Some element representing ISIS has tried to take credit for the attack, yes, but it is far from proven that ISIS was actually in any way involved. In his statements / posts, the attacker claimed allegiance to several terrorist groups which are at odds with one another. Certainly there is no concrete evidence yet released saying he was directly connected to ISIS (though such evidence may appear).

Yes, the media did incorrectly report the type of gun because THE POLICE TOLD THE MEDIA it was an AR-15 at first. Much later, the police corrected themselves. Apparently it was a Sig Sauer MCX rifle.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/chec......ge-much/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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I suspect many facts are still forthcoming.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:

This was a hate crime that specifically targeted the LGBTQ community. And it wasn't because they were Americans.

It sure looks like he targetted the LGBTQ community. But it is really confused. It is reported that he cheered the planes hitting the towers on 9/11. So there was probably also some aspect of hatred for America / some Western values involved. But it is also said that he was gay himself. According to his wife, and former classmates. So maybe there was some inner turmoil, where his desires went against his beliefs. This is one case where I think there were several causes. His contradictory feelings were probably all stewing together for many years.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Slim King
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Here is the poster for the fund raiser. Terrorism has taken it's toll here. Time to help Orlando heal. This thread is about praying for those who need it .. Please quibble elsewhere.....
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=......&theater
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balducci
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Slim King wrote:

This thread is about praying for those who need it .. Please quibble elsewhere.....

Bob and I were only responding to points YOU raised. Keep your own editorializing out of the thread, and I will happily do the same.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
acesover
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I do not know why some individuals must chime in and disagree with anything I say. I have not posted here much lately just for that reason. here is what I said and I do not feel that I in any wayslighted either Americans or the LGBTQ community. If anyone thinks that I am sorry. It is just not true and I apologize. As I said it affects us all here in America. Here is my post which was in response of Darth_Prime feeling that the LGBTQ community is being ignored. Also not everyone killed was part of said community. Granted most were.

No one is ignoring you. You are Americans and it did happen here in America. Your life style is just as much an issue as you being an American. You deserve no more or less because of your life style than any other American. This has hurt us all (Americans). This has hurt America. All colors and creeds and life styles of Americans are affected by such a heinous act.

As the saying goes. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

Unfortunately some individuals hold grudges (not referring to Darth_Prime) and if I say it is black they will automatically say, "no it is white". Again that is the reason I have stayed away from this board other than just reading and not posting. But I felt this deserved a post of my feelings.

My thoughts and prayers are with all of those affected by this tragedy. Don't try and make sense out of why this individual did this. He was obviously mentally disturbed and misguided. Please do not try and look for a justification for this man's actions. There is none. The biggest problem with this man is that he lived 24 hours to long.
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funsway
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:
This killer was loudly proclaiming his hatred for gays and minorities, and his desire to kill them, to his co-workers well before this happened.

And the fact that he claimed allegiance to both ISIS and Hezbollah demonstrates that he really really didn't understand either ideology.



Thanks for weighing in one this. The killer also claimed to have a bomb. This turned out to be false.
So, why is his claim to be associated with ISIS accepted as true. Why is this act considered terrorism rathe than a mass killing by a deranged sociopath?

Yes, the death of so many innocents is tragic, but why is it more tragic than the dozens of people killed by gangs in our major cities every day?
or more tragic that tens of thousands who die of starvation daily? Is it just because it is "close to home?" or because we have become desensitized to death and violence as a culture?

A popular movie cannot succeed without explosions and dozens of innocent people killed in a simple car crash.

Terrorism (or the claim to same) works because we find no horror in a single death, and a person desiring to "make an impact" must "do it large."

I do feel that the ability to "put on the cloak of ISIS" possibly shifted this deranged person for talk to action. But the foundation is hate and bigotry learned right here in the USA.
Now the media can rally to the cry of "Defeat ISIS" or "gun control" or "the other guy's religion is bad,"or "gays deserve it" while ignoring other serious problems.

Assigning blame is not the answer. We may never know the "facts" of this events, only the media spin on it.

I will pray for the families of those killed, including the family of the killer. But I refuse to be "more shocked" by this event than any other senseless death.
I will not be terrorized just because others choose to be.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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E.S. Andrews
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In a very broad sense, acts of terrorism involve hatred, but they are not "hate crimes" as that term connotes: a targeted, prejudice-fueled violent crime against an historically subjugated minority within one's own society: gays, lesbians, blacks, hispanics, women, transgender, etc.

The profile emerging of the Orlando killer suggests that his was primarily a hate crime, fueled by self-loathing for his membership in a group he was taught to despise.

Throw in bipolar disorder, rage issues, general emotional instability, a confused affinity for a hodgepodge of terror group ideologies and messages, and the ability as a U.S.-born citizen to legally purchase a military assault weapon, and you get the horrific slaughter of gays and lesbians in the Orlando gay nightclub that the shooter frequented.

The right's current convenient and comforting boogie man is terrorism, which to them means ISIL and muslims generally. They needn't confront their own bigotry, hate, and fear of a changing American demographic and mindset so long as they have "terrorism" to blame when their ideological brethren act out and commit an horrific mass hate crime. (The label also assists their political aims.) They then conduct a moment of silence in their legislative chambers, after which they block any legislation that would curtail discrimination against gay citizens or ban private ownership of military assault weapons.
Darth_Prime
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:
This killer was loudly proclaiming his hatred for gays and minorities, and his desire to kill them, to his co-workers well before this happened.

And the fact that he claimed allegiance to both ISIS and Hezbollah demonstrates that he really really didn't understand either ideology.

What I want to know is why so many on the right are trying as hard as they can to downplay the fact that the attack was directed at the LBGTQ community.

The did the same thing when Dylan Roof shot black worshipers at a black church after having posted a picture of himself with the Confederate flag.

The right said it was an attack on Christianity, totally ignoring that it was directed at African Americans.



Thank you!
Darth_Prime
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 12, 2016, Mary Mowder wrote:
It is both a hate crime and an act of terrorism.

Yes. One does not counteract the other.



Yes, but it's getting politicized as Terrorism and not the fact that the GLBT+ community was targeted, it's being exploited that this was the biggest Mass Shooting in America, but ignoring it was against Us the GLBT+ Community.


Once again we are being overlooked and ignored


No one is ignoring you. You are Americans and it did happen here in America. Your life style is just as much an issue as you being an American. You deserve no more or less because of your life style than any other American. This has hurt us all (Americans). This has hurt America. All colors and creeds and life styles of Americans are affected by such a heinous act.


First, it's not a "Lifestyle" it's Sexual Orientation and Gender-Identity. not a "Style of life" we pick on a whim. second in over 29 States it's Legal to fire someone, deny them services, housing, property, Public Accommodations, Blood Donations (Gay Men and Bi-Sexual Men) among other things, and with the FADA Bill that they are trying to federally pass, I would say we are being ignored and it is an issue. because we don't have the same rights as all Americans
George Ledo
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, E.S. Andrews wrote:
The right's current convenient and comforting boogie man is terrorism, which to them means ISIL and muslims generally. They needn't confront their own bigotry, hate, and fear of a changing American demographic and mindset so long as they have "terrorism" to blame when their ideological brethren act out and commit an horrific mass hate crime. (The label also assists their political aims.) They then conduct a moment of silence in their legislative chambers, after which they block any legislation that would curtail discrimination against gay citizens or ban private ownership of military assault weapons.

I tend to agree, but I would delete the word "right's" in the first sentence. I think right now it's just the "convenient and comforting boogie man" all around. Not much different than in the 50s and 60s, when every time someone passed gas it was sold as a communist conspiracy. And I do mean "sold:" it probably sold just as much advertising time back then as ISIS does now.

As I said in a post above, I had very negative experiences working with elected officials for nine years, and I have to admit I'm still jaded by it. So, that being said, I find it really amusing that the "moments of silence" you mention tend to be used as photo opps, while blocking "controversial" legislation tends to get ignored.
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Dannydoyle
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The only problem with that theory guys is people are still being killed by these "Boogie Men". So ignoring them seems to not work so well. Ask Belgium.

A defense seems to be necessary. Not offense mind you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Slim King wrote:

This thread is about praying for those who need it .. Please quibble elsewhere.....

Bob and I were only responding to points YOU raised. Keep your own editorializing out of the thread, and I will happily do the same.

Please start your own thread to fight on. This is a prayer request. An islamic man claiming his allegiance to ISIS and the Jihad movement has shot over 100 people here in Orlando. We need your prayers!
I'll be performing this Friday for a benefit... The event starts at 7PM in Old Town just a few minutes from Disney. I invite you all to attend. I may be doing Magic as well as singing and dancing.


THANKS FOR ALL THE PRAYERS SO FAR!!!!!
And again ... If you want to argue whatever positions you have .. PLEASE start your own thread.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Salguod Nairb
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This will be the only time I will say this and will deny it in the future.

I agree with Slim.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
acesover
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 12, 2016, Mary Mowder wrote:
It is both a hate crime and an act of terrorism.

Yes. One does not counteract the other.



Yes, but it's getting politicized as Terrorism and not the fact that the GLBT+ community was targeted, it's being exploited that this was the biggest Mass Shooting in America, but ignoring it was against Us the GLBT+ Community.


Once again we are being overlooked and ignored


No one is ignoring you. You are Americans and it did happen here in America. Your life style is just as much an issue as you being an American. You deserve no more or less because of your life style than any other American. This has hurt us all (Americans). This has hurt America. All colors and creeds and life styles of Americans are affected by such a heinous act.


First, it's not a "Lifestyle" it's Sexual Orientation and Gender-Identity. not a "Style of life" we pick on a whim. second in over 29 States it's Legal to fire someone, deny them services, housing, property, Public Accommodations, Blood Donations (Gay Men and Bi-Sexual Men) among other things, and with the FADA Bill that they are trying to federally pass, I would say we are being ignored and it is an issue. because we don't have the same rights as all Americans


Reading this it sounds like the opposite is true: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/e......017.html

However my whole point is that you may feel that you are being ignored but if you are following the news again the opposite is true and your community is constantly written up. When the fact of the matter is that no matter what any of the people do in their private lives there is no justification for this act. I have no idea what motivated this individual and I do not believe we will ever know for sure. There will be a lot of speculation of that I am sure. Again I cannot express my sympathy enough for all of those effected. They will all be in my thoughts and prayers.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Darth_Prime
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 12, 2016, Mary Mowder wrote:
It is both a hate crime and an act of terrorism.

Yes. One does not counteract the other.



Yes, but it's getting politicized as Terrorism and not the fact that the GLBT+ community was targeted, it's being exploited that this was the biggest Mass Shooting in America, but ignoring it was against Us the GLBT+ Community.


Once again we are being overlooked and ignored


No one is ignoring you. You are Americans and it did happen here in America. Your life style is just as much an issue as you being an American. You deserve no more or less because of your life style than any other American. This has hurt us all (Americans). This has hurt America. All colors and creeds and life styles of Americans are affected by such a heinous act.


First, it's not a "Lifestyle" it's Sexual Orientation and Gender-Identity. not a "Style of life" we pick on a whim. second in over 29 States it's Legal to fire someone, deny them services, housing, property, Public Accommodations, Blood Donations (Gay Men and Bi-Sexual Men) among other things, and with the FADA Bill that they are trying to federally pass, I would say we are being ignored and it is an issue. because we don't have the same rights as all Americans


Reading this it sounds like the opposite is true: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/e......017.html

However my whole point is that you may feel that you are being ignored but if you are following the news again the opposite is true and your community is constantly written up. When the fact of the matter is that no matter what any of the people do in their private lives there is no justification for this act. I have no idea what motivated this individual and I do not believe we will ever know for sure. There will be a lot of speculation of that I am sure. Again I cannot express my sympathy enough for all of those effected. They will all be in my thoughts and prayers.


Only some states provide protection based on Sexual-Orientation and Gender-Identity, but not every Sate, it is not a Federally Protected Class. but this is for another Conversation, I don't want to Hijack this topic
acesover
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, Darth_Prime wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 14, 2016, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 12, 2016, Mary Mowder wrote:
It is both a hate crime and an act of terrorism.

Yes. One does not counteract the other.



Yes, but it's getting politicized as Terrorism and not the fact that the GLBT+ community was targeted, it's being exploited that this was the biggest Mass Shooting in America, but ignoring it was against Us the GLBT+ Community.


Once again we are being overlooked and ignored


No one is ignoring you. You are Americans and it did happen here in America. Your life style is just as much an issue as you being an American. You deserve no more or less because of your life style than any other American. This has hurt us all (Americans). This has hurt America. All colors and creeds and life styles of Americans are affected by such a heinous act.


First, it's not a "Lifestyle" it's Sexual Orientation and Gender-Identity. not a "Style of life" we pick on a whim. second in over 29 States it's Legal to fire someone, deny them services, housing, property, Public Accommodations, Blood Donations (Gay Men and Bi-Sexual Men) among other things, and with the FADA Bill that they are trying to federally pass, I would say we are being ignored and it is an issue. because we don't have the same rights as all Americans


Reading this it sounds like the opposite is true: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/e......017.html

However my whole point is that you may feel that you are being ignored but if you are following the news again the opposite is true and your community is constantly written up. When the fact of the matter is that no matter what any of the people do in their private lives there is no justification for this act. I have no idea what motivated this individual and I do not believe we will ever know for sure. There will be a lot of speculation of that I am sure. Again I cannot express my sympathy enough for all of those effected. They will all be in my thoughts and prayers.


Only some states provide protection based on Sexual-Orientation and Gender-Identity, but not every Sate, it is not a Federally Protected Class. but this is for another Conversation, I don't want to Hijack this topic


AGREED...
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Slim King
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Just got a call tonight .... I think the gig starts at 6 now with a Vigil from 7 to 8:30..... They are trying to get me a Bluesmobile to do some driving around in sometime after 8:30. Not sure if we will be singing or not. I told them I'd fill any spaces they needed on their timeline. I may do some Blues Magic as I've performed at the House of Blues and Universal before. I hope all in the area can drop by. The owner of the A and W is a big fan, so I'll try to be in that area the most. Thanks for all the prayers.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
lynnef
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Quote:
On Jun 15, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Just got a call tonight .... I think the gig starts at 6 now with a Vigil from 7 to 8:30..... They are trying to get me a Bluesmobile to do some driving around in sometime after 8:30. Not sure if we will be singing or not. I told them I'd fill any spaces they needed on their timeline. I may do some Blues Magic as I've performed at the House of Blues and Universal before. I hope all in the area can drop by. The owner of the A and W is a big fan, so I'll try to be in that area the most. Thanks for all the prayers.


Not singing? Not all vigils need be silent! Hope you have a successful 'gig', Slim, whether its music or magic or both. Something to heal by! Lynn
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