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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
This question is prompted by other recent threads and events. My Internet search has not provided answers satisfactory to me, so I ask opinions here. All are rhetorical questions.
My concern is with linking the terms "conceal carry." It would seem to be two separate issues. Does a person have the right to carry a weapon away from their "home protection need" in public places? Should such a weapon be concealed? Why is it not my right (safe in person) to know if you are carrying or not? If a person decides to carry a weapon in public, who should they not be proud to display the fact? ............. collateral issues not to dilute the above questions or focus: To what extent is the desire to carry an ego issue rather than a protection one? (my gun is bigger than yours, etc) To what extend is "immediately available" in a spree issue a factor in having a concealed weapon? Assuming that knowledge of "many carrying a concealed weapon" vs "many obviously carrying a weapon" is apparent to a potential mass shooter, how will that influence their planning? Is there an advantage/risk to pretending to carry rather than actually carrying? Should a carry gun (concealed or not) be certified as functional in case I decide to borrow it from your fallen form to engage a risk?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
How many threads do you want discussing the same issue?
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
If your question are rhetorical, you shouldn't expect anyone to answer them.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2016, Salguod Nairb wrote: Please guide me to where this has been discussed. I have found no ideas on why a carried gun should be concealed rather than carried openly and proudly.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2016, mastermindreader wrote: but they might guide me to sources where these questions are answered. I never expect anything in Café' posts, but can hope.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Funsway,
Open carry and concealed carry are two different things. Many states have open carry laws, which means one can have a pistol on his or her belt openly. My state of Delaware is an open carry state and you can probably find them by Googling "Open Carry States." Concealed carry is a completely different situation, where one must obtain a permit to do so. Concealed carry means you can carry your pistol on your person but it is concealed; under your jacket, in a pocket, in an ankle holster under your slacks, etc. States have different requirement for obtaining a concealed carry permit. In mt home state of Delaware, we must take a course in gun safety and self defense, be fingerprinted, have a background check and the total cost is about $400. When I lived in Pennsylvania, all that was required was a background check and the fees were minimal. Some states reciprocate other states' concealed carry permits, while others don't. Any questions, PM me and we can avoid comments like the ones above.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2016, Bob1Dog wrote: This is good information.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Thanks BobiDog - most of this I knew.
My question is why people desire a concealed weapon? I do not understand the motivation or advantage if the goal is self-defense. At the University of Tennesssee, Knoxville it is now legal to carry a weapon to class but it has to be registered with the campus police. But, the list of the concealed carriers will not be released/publicized. Why not? Why don't other students have the right to know who is carrying? My right to self-defense requires that I know what weapons another person carries. To conceal a gun places their right to carry over my right to be safe in my person. What is the origin and logic behind these laws? Why not open carry for everyone as a requirement?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2016, funsway wrote: Where is that written?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Not gonna' get into a heavy discussion on this. It's really about the laws in each state.
For what it's worth, in my experience, all concealed carry permit holders (including me) realize the advantage of a criminal not knowing that you are armed in the event of an assault situation, and are law abiding citizens who take the safety and protection of their families and loved ones very seriously. We're not a bunch of rednecks out to cause trouble. Criminals don't bother to get the concealed carry permits for the very reason that they ARE criminals and will carry them anyway, despite the legal consequences of being caught. I'm personally not in favor of open carry because I believe it could lead to misunderstandings in public places and result in violence. However, I wouldn't have any fear of a legitimate concealed weapons carrier because we keep it to ourselves in public and private environments and would only use it if absolutely necessary. Folks rationalize that, "Well, it's never going to happen to me." And then it does. That's why concealed carry permits appeal to those who have them. Just my thoughts.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
"It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons."
Often attributed in some form to Jefferson but that is of some dispute. The sentiment rings true. I don't want to debate where it came from as is clouds the issue. Even the idea that a person might be armed doesn't hurt. Yes Bob I agree those who wish to commit crime are by definition criminals. They will have the tips necessary to carry those crimes out and you are an advocate of as level a playing field as possible. Without a long discussion am I close?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Danny, I think we are on the same page but I don't understand your opening quote and what it refers to. The case for open carry? The case for concealed carry? Or the case for no carry? Or something else? It's hard sometimes to understand one's meanings in here and I'll admit I can be dense as well.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
It is often attributed to Jefferson to further the case for the second amendment. Basically saying that if it is known you are not armed it is far easier to attack you. Seems reasonable.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Yup, I completely agree.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Thanks for the personal views, Bob1Dog. They are more of what I was looking for. But you say, "the advantage of a criminal not knowing that you are armed in the event of an assault situation."
What is this advantage over the assailant not acting because you are armed? Danny offers, "if it is known you are not armed it is far easier to attack you." Thus, it follows that is the assailant know you are armed they are less like to attack. This would seem to indicate that open carry is more preferable than conceal carry. Would a deranged person set on killing a lot of people be diverted by suspecting a lot of people might have a gun rather than knowing some do have a gun? Probably not. But a thug on the street approaching a stranger might take a visible gun into consideration over guessing whether that person has concealed carry. I am not sure, so I am asking for opinions and personal views. So far they seem contradictory. Yes, I can appreciate that some prefer conceal carry over not being able to carry at all, but that doesn't address the advantages of open carry. You seem to fear some misunderstanding or resulting violence. Is there any evidence to support his? Is the fear of the public or the police or criminals? or something else?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
If a person is guessing then even those who do not carry can perhaps reap a benefit, or so the theory goes. Open carry you are pretty much telling them who the easy mark is.
If you want evidence do research.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
In rifle club we carried all our weapons openly to and from school where we fired them in the basement. During hunting season most of us had our rifles and shotguns in the gun racks in our trucks during school hours. I can't remember anyone being shot at my High School. We were a bunch of teenagers open carrying all the time during hunting season.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 28, 2016, Slim King wrote: Can you remember people being shot at all of the high schools that didn't have gun clubs? |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 28, 2016, Slim King wrote: Slim, I think the OP had handguns more in mind than long guns, which, unless you're toting an already illegal sawed-off shotgun, isn't germane to this discussion.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 28, 2016, S2000magician wrote: Exactly the point. The gun club has nothing to do with anyone being shot or not. If a deranged individual wants to shoot someone their school does not necessarily have to have a gun club or not. At last we can put to rest that gun clubs and guns are the cause, but rather the individual is the cause. Guns don't kill people. Deranged eople with guns kill people. Thank you S2000 Why is it every time there is a shooting they want to take the guns away from those who had nothing to do with it?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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