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balducci
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Quote:
On Jul 7, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:

But imagine being hunted by a predator smarter and more dangerous and has a gun. Seems a gun might also make sense.

Perhaps (or even probably), but that is not the environment we live in up here.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Probably not. But maybe before passing judgment on others some need to step into their shoes.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Both countries are pretty friendly with their immigration policies, so even if you don't HAVE to choose, there's a decent chance you could GET to choose.

Personally, I'll take the Second Amendment. I can and do buy my own health insurance; if I wanted a gun and didn't have a legal right to own one, I'd be S.O.L. Not really apples and apples when one is a question of what you're legally allowed to do, and the other is a question of what you get to force someone else to pay for.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Both are in the realm of keeping oneself alive.

If I have no medical care (b/c it's a) unaffordable, or b) not approved by my private insurance company), and I'm ill, I may rightly not care about my right to own an unneeded weapon.

My point is, your argument cuts both ways in terms of utility. So rationally, if one had to choose, both choices are rational depending on personal circumstances.

I, personally, would go for the health insurance. I find my own life quite undiminished by not owning firearms.

I'm not asking for a moral or legal choice here, more a which-is-more-important-to-you question.


And nice to be debating with you again!
LobowolfXXX
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Nice to be back!

Just to be clear, initially you were talking about right to bear arms vs. right to publicly funded health insurance; are you now asking about the right to bear arms vs. the right to have health insurance at all?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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No. Same question as originally.

My point in my last post is more this: Lack of affordability is just as restrictive (maybe more so!) as illegality when it comes to a person's actions, activities, and survival.
LobowolfXXX
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Ok, understood. I'll stick with my original answer, with the understanding that perhaps it would change if health insurance were unaffordable to me.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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I'm very lucky to have what is considered very good health insurance through my union. And yet Mrs. Landmark and I still have to battle almost every month with the insurers to get the proper medical and drug coverage we need. Nothing catastrophic, yet clearly we are at the whim of pencil pushers and penny pinchers, not doctors.
Dannydoyle
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Affordability is a function of the market. Let the market ACTUALLY take over and then talk affordability.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Salguod Nairb
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Affordability is a function of the market. Let the market ACTUALLY take over and then talk affordability.


Interesting, but what is affordable for one may not be affordable to another.

I have medical insurance on myself but not my wife. I'm in Kuwait and she is in the Philippines.

It is cheaper for me to pay out of pocket for her care; while here in Kuwait the prices are equivalent to the States.

A couple years ago I needed dental work. The price for the tooth removal and cavity fillings would have cost over $2000. It was cheaper for me to fly business class to the Philippines round trip and have the same procedure done there. If I remember correctly the dental fee was about $150 and that was in a Mall.

I have no idea if The Affordable Care Act is working or not as I haven't been to the States in 5 years. Does it make medical care affordable?
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
LobowolfXXX
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It's been good for a lot of people and bad for.a lot of people. It's also been way more expensive than originally projected.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Affordability is a function of the market. Let the market ACTUALLY take over and then talk affordability.


Interesting, but what is affordable for one may not be affordable to another.

I have medical insurance on myself but not my wife. I'm in Kuwait and she is in the Philippines.

It is cheaper for me to pay out of pocket for her care; while here in Kuwait the prices are equivalent to the States.

A couple years ago I needed dental work. The price for the tooth removal and cavity fillings would have cost over $2000. It was cheaper for me to fly business class to the Philippines round trip and have the same procedure done there. If I remember correctly the dental fee was about $150 and that was in a Mall.

I have no idea if The Affordable Care Act is working or not as I haven't been to the States in 5 years. Does it make medical care affordable?


It is absolutely not what it was advertised as.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Agreed. I'm not a fan of the ACA for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is that it still keeps insurance companies and the profit motive in the loop.

But let's also remember that it wasn't peaches and roses before the ACA. There's a reason something had to be done, and that's because the market was not working for many, many Americans.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Affordability is a function of the market. Let the market ACTUALLY take over and then talk affordability.

With or without monopolies?
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Affordability is a function of the market. Let the market ACTUALLY take over and then talk affordability.

With or without monopolies?


I think that you are on the right track.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2016, landmark wrote:
Agreed. I'm not a fan of the ACA for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is that it still keeps insurance companies and the profit motive in the loop.

But let's also remember that it wasn't peaches and roses before the ACA. There's a reason Congress something had to be done, and that's because the market was not working for many, many Americans.


They were forced to do SOMETHING .


The reason was that the healthcare system was falling apart. Thousands of dollars a month for family health insurance. And every year staggering premium rate increases. Even businesses were staggering under the load. Both parties knew they had to address the issue or incumbents would get thrown out of office by disaffected voters.
landmark
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What are the private health insurers efficient at, other than generating profits?
Dannydoyle
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Yes they never helped anyone.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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