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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » F*rc* pads - warped magic (37 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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IAIN
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Ok, before I start, if you wanna kick off - do it elsewhere, because I'll be reporting you if you get ****** with me Smile

http://tinyurl.com/hehsjwk

what they are:
(in my opinion, unfortunately) the warped magic f*rc*ng pads are NOT A7 - if that doesn't matter to you, then its a non-issue...for me, it would have been nice, because then it would have been handy to switch in an identical A7 pad that had (for example) an imp device built into it...

these are 3" by 4.5" - carboard backed, black cover, paper is of good quality though you won't want to use a sharpie to fill the pad out...

instructions are minimal, the usual "limited by your own imagination", so no routines supplied if that's a concern

let's grapple with the main issue raised in latest and greatest - brett's version
http://tinyurl.com/jfc88mv

the warped magic ones look pretty much identical...same size, some colour cover, on one level - black is a neutral 'invisible' colour..i do however, think its a shame that they went with both identical size and colour cover...

the tricky bit is working out what is fair, for the following reasons:
this all came about because of Oz's AGT performance
obviously I do not have access to Brett's brain so do not know how influenced he was by that nor how or why decided to make them...i know from those threads that a few of us said "we've been making our own for years"...and as said before, it was Chris Jones who made them available, called Padgali - his was A6 is in size, and custom cut. They too had a cardboard back and front cover, taped/bound along the top...

can we say in all good conscious that a standard look/feel for a pad 'belongs' to anyone? I mean, we can with a designed cover (like say the PL pad, that was made influenced by high-end artist pad covers in Germany) - but as we usually want something that looks 'everyday', then we're going to be raiding that same look and feel surely?

so we're going to follow the same kinda rules for this sort of item...and in all honesty, I won't be using this pad (nor Brett's) - not because they are terrible, they're certainly not - its just that I buy little a7 pads off ebay and tr*m them myself...

back to the Oz performance - no one was really talking about this technique applied to these pads much on here before Oz's performance were they, lets be honest and open about that at least...

bearing in mind that these pads and brett's are virtually identical - I do think that warped magic DO need to make a change to the covers, that does seem fair - and by looking at the pad Brett sent to me a while ago (a bigger one) the ones he offers have slightly better paper quality too...by about 15% or so I'd say (by touch)...

its a murky issue, and I am only speaking truthfully in this review/ramble...

i personally think that any company is entitled to produce a pad in this way, because that information is 'out there' in our specialised literature, and it doesn't take too much of a genius to port over card decks to other items...i mean, who hasn't thought of making a p*p-eyed p*pper deck out of postcards as an example...who hasn't thought of using l&s cards in a stack of business cards? its not a huge leap of creativity in my opinion...the importance of these things is usually in the subtleties and tweaks and touches that one individual might add and not the physical object itself...

just like the look of a pad is pretty much standard (to a point) - its just the branding that needs looking at, and as I said, I think the black cover should be changed on these ones..

so there you have it, sorry for going on, just wanted to be clear about my thoughts...
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IAIN
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Aha! just noticed something...Brett's ones (of this size) have a leatherette front cover, and these ones are just plain black cardboard...

i've also emailed warped magic and asked them the same questions that I pose here...
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IAIN
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Ok, I've heard back from warped magic, they've said that the next batch - and they're going to offer different coloured covers and change the size of them...

EDIT - forgot to say, I thought the quality of the cut of the warped magic pads are very good and clean...
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Christopher Taylor
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While Warped Magic's design and timing for this release might raise an eyebrow or two, I am happy to see that they chose not to copy my three-colour-pad concept in their release.

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IAIN
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Brett has a 3 colour pad, I assume you two released it together?
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Lseeyou
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2016, Christopher Taylor wrote:
While Warped Magic's design and timing for this release might raise an eyebrow or two, I am happy to see that they chose not to copy my three-colour-pad concept in their release.

Christopher


i think that concept belongs along time ago to 3M

[img=http://scene7.targetimg1.com/is/image/Target/15838356?wid=480&hei=480][/img]
Christopher Taylor
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2016, IAIN wrote:
Brett has a 3 colour pad, I assume you two released it together?


Sorry for not being more clear but, to make a long story short, yes.

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saysold1
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Iain:

The basic idea for the SvenPads (a precision and consistent higher quality Sven pad that was superior to home made) came about last Summer around this time - when I was at Craig Filicetti's office.

This was way ahead of Oz's performance - and Craig at Promystic can confirm this to be true.

I asked him whether he would be interested in a quantity of pads if I could get them manufactured to a level of precision on the long/short pages which were 1/8' (or less) - extremely tight.

About a month later I brought the samples to Craig and he (and I) were blown away by the invisibility of the Sven (short) cuts. He was surprised that the Sven principle still worked so well even with the extreme tightness of the long/short staggers.

Craig reimbursed me for half of what I made up - and he then suggested that I offer these Svengali style pads to the mentalism community.

"Everyone will want these and the quality is better than anyone has made before," he said.

I looked into the idea - Craig as we all know is pretty sharp businessman. I had never released anything before in quantity (other than the ESP Wood Bowl I created for the Labco ESP).

So I invested about $1000 into making a quantity of pocket sized SvenPads.

They sat in a box (to my wife's dismay) until last October where I brought them along and showed the SvenPads to everyone at my McBride Mystery School classes (including Jeff, Eugene, Larry and Ross). Even cocky lad Ken Dyne (who was in our Mentalist class) saw them and got to handle in person (Ken belatedly panned the SvenPads in his podcast this past May wondering what was so 'innovative' about the idea, but god bless him it didn't hurt sales a bit and probably helped. Thanks Kennedy!).

Many pros and hobbyists alike at Mindvention said they loved 'em and wanted more. I sold every SvenPad I brought to the show.

The next month in November the SvenPads site was launched - and the rest is history.

The innocent and boring little paper pads - have sold many (many) thousands of units since - and were voted #1 here on the Café in 2015 as the Trick Of The Year.

Maybe my customers know something that you are missing Iain?

Oz Pearlman did not use my SvenPads on AGT - but he now uses the SvenPads exclusively. They have appeared on BGT, and on TV in many countries worldwide.

Iain - I do not seek to have a long winded and mindless debate with you here about the origins of the SvenPads, and whether making them yourself is best. I have always stated from day #1 that anyone can make them home made (as I did for years prior) and more power to those who want to spend 60+ minutes with a paper cutter to create something that will work but will be nowhere near as perfect as the SvenPads.

The knock-off pads from Darren Robinson at Warped magic seem to be a VERY POOR quality copy indeed. Robinson copied the exact SIZE of the pocket size SvenPads it seems - but the rest seems to be junk.

My manufacturer looked at the Warped Magic copies yesterday and found that he is using cheap DUCT TAPE to bind his copy pads - duct tape is not usually used in professional applications and will not hold up well over time.

The SvenPads use proper linen bookbinding tape and the black mini's use expensive (heavy) leatherette style covers which are made for long term durability.

The paper and cover stock of the SvenPads is superior to the Force Pad copies - which appear to be cheap construction type paper for covers.

The genuine SvenPads are not cheap - they are a PRO tool, designed for pros and for quality without compromises.

As always - you 100% get what you pay for and Caveat emptor.

I fully expected copies at some point - and I expect more as the success of the SvenPads makes them a target.

However I did develop the concept of the finest Svengali pads in the world - breaking brand new ground with a variety of delicious sizes and styles never before seen including Post-it notes, 3 colors of 3 banks each (thanks to the idea from Christopher Taylor), classy black SvenPads (minis), stage size SvenPads and some new ideas yet to be released.

I also worked with Bob Cassidy and others to develop and share routines and innovative ideas for the SvenPads - and creating a community of fertile ideas with the popular SvenPad Facebook users group.

Man do I feel good about giving back to the magic and mentalism community - and my customers know first hand that each SvenPad is hand checked and 100% guaranteed with no questions asked. My customers also get special deals from time to time available only to them.

Iain you seem to be on a tear about the pads and I think your superb creative energies might be far better placed elsewhere - not on this silly obsession with SvenPads and posting new topics about knock off products or trying to get to the bottom of something that was discussed eons ago.

"it doesn't take too much of a genius to port over card decks to other items...i mean, who hasn't thought of making a p*p-eyed p*pper deck out of postcards as an example...who hasn't thought of using l&s cards in a stack of business cards? its not a huge leap of creativity in my opinion...the importance of these things is usually in the subtleties and tweaks and touches that one individual might add and not the physical object itself..."

Kind of a dumb statement so I will let that dog lie.

The SvenPads are not a commodity product - pop eyed popper decks are.

I did not invent pads using the Svengali idea.

I did create the finest SvenPads in the world along with many new resources for routines and ideas with the pads.

Get over it and move on to something else please Iain Smile

Cheers and thanks again to all who have supported the SvenPad Supreme. Some fun surprises still ahead.

Click here to view attached image.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
IAIN
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It wasn't a dumb statement, don't attempt to belittle it...i understand you are annoyed and being protective of your product...and please don't attempt to tell me to "move on", I'm my own man...you can talk with me like a polite adult or not at all...

If you re-read what I've posted, I'm actually supporting your product in many ways...

And also, because of the threads, warped magic are making changes...
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I don't need or seek your support Iain - but thank you kindly Smile

People are intelligent and can make their own choices - it's all about choices in life.

You should move on as there was no need to post a new topic here in mentally speaking after your initial posts in Latest and Greatest.

Are you planning to post a new topic at Inner Thoughts too?

Please - enough already.

I don't give a crap what Darren Robinson & Warped Magic does - hopefully he will go to sleep and think up some unique ideas rather than riding on the coattails of others.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme- "One of the most versatile and well made utility devices I have ever used. Highly recommended." Bob Cassidy www.SvenPads.com
Dr Spektor
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Hmmm 2 color videos - now its time for B&W

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My new theme song!

I dig it Dr.

Very 80's
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JoelDickinson
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I'm completely neutral on this, but no disrespect meant here but to say Darren is riding your coat tails is unfair. I've been using a Svengali style pad for years. My friend and magician Jonathan Jenkins introduced me to the idea in 2003. Ever since then I've made my own.

I think it's good to have choices. I've been using my handmade pads since 2003.
I will be sure at some point to check out both the Svenpad and the F**cePad.

Looking at the photo though that doesn't look like duct tape on Warped pads (gaffa tape) it looks like a pad you'd buy in a stationary shop.
Also, I do believe Svenpads look better quality. Both pads have pros and cons and give the magic community more choice.

Best wishes,

Joel.
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John C
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This thread was already available. Why bring it up again. What's the point?

Makes one believe it is agenda driven.
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Dr Spektor
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Well, it let me post a whacky video of Svengali that didn't get deleted Smile - glad you liked it Brett!
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IAIN
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2016, John C wrote:
This thread was already available. Why bring it up again. What's the point?

Makes one believe it is agenda driven.


no it wasn't... I posted a link to the product in latest and greatest - I had no info about it then other than a picture...

i then bought a set, and did a review of them in here...which was appropriate...

if you think there's an agenda - go for it...but you're wrong...though feel free to pm me and air your theory...
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saysold1
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Quote:
On Jul 13, 2016, John C wrote:
This thread was already available. Why bring it up again. What's the point?

Makes one believe it is agenda driven.


Correct.

Nothing to see here - nothing new. Yawn.
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Last Laugh
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This thread is a review, so it belongs in this forum. The other was speculation, so it belongs there. Kinda don't get the animosity towards Iain, he took one for the team to check out the product and he reported honestly. I don't see any agenda at all, at least not from Iain....
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Stunninger
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On Jul 13, 2016, Last Laugh wrote:
This thread is a review, so it belongs in this forum. The other was speculation, so it belongs there. Kinda don't get the animosity towards Iain, he took one for the team to check out the product and he reported honestly. I don't see any agenda at all, at least not from Iain....


Exactly.

Iain is doing a service to us all with both threads. Both are appropriate.

Most markets have high-end products, which appeal to buyers willing to pay more for higher quality, and lower-end products where buyers accept lower quality because they want the lower price. It's common. And to be expected.
IAIN
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...i genuinely thought it was good that the guys at warped magic have listened to feedback, and are going to use different coloured covers and change the sizes of the pad, just to make sure that they have next to no similarity (at first glance) to Brett's pad...dunno when they'll be out, don't know the guys other than from a couple of emails...
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