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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I would never ask a spectator if they wanted to see an "effect." The word doesn't mean anything to a layman. It is stilted. And it has a specific meaning among magicians that most of you are probably not familiar with. If you don't know what I mean, read The Trick Brain by Dariel Fitzkee.
If someone rudely asks me to "do a trick," I don't refuse rudely. I simply say something like, "this is not my table," or "No, thanks, I'm off-duty right now." If someone is polite about it, I may or may not do something. It depends on my mood. During my shows, I seldom use the word trick, unless it is relevant to the story -- such as -- "I'd like to do the most difficult trick I know, I'd like to borrow some money." For some reason, I think non-professionals are more worried about what we call what we do than professionals. Stop worrying about it, and do it.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Rafa Regular user Costa Rica 102 Posts |
You can´t define the word for what people use to refer to something they know what they mean... Hmmm, my bad english meets my difficult thought.
I mean: In every aspect you speciallize, you begin to use terminology to define things that you called by a different name. In astronomy, art, mathematics and linguistics, you begin to refer to things with a different name. But if you begin to talk to a doctor and he says "his calateperimender is entering a 9 factor", instead of "I have a headache" you´ll think he is ridiculous, show-off or a funny pose. A trick is a trick, a headache is a headache. If you´re talking to a magician maybe you won´t call it trick, although if you´re at the same level you can even make fun of that and call it a trick. My point is that just because a person speciallizes in something and gets to know the propper name, doesn´t mean that the name is silly just because you expanded your vocabulary. I personally hate the word trick, and I fully agree with you in what you said, but you don´t have to feel bad just because the other person doesn´t have your vocabulary and doesn´t know any better. Just listen to what they say: I haven´t seen anything like this trick in my whole life. Do you think if they knew better they would include "trick" and "my whole life" in the same sentence? I think they are not trying to disrespect you, they just have that only word to express what they think, and they think it´s the right one. |
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JesterJ New user 68 Posts |
One of the guys who helped get me back into doing magic was incredibly uptight about this. If anyone asked him to do a trick, he would go through a short little rap that made it clear that he hated the term trick. This also tended to alienate some of the people who might have enjoyed his magic.
Getting to Rafa's point: jargon is the concept that you're refering to. When people use jargon with outsiders, it makes them less comfortable. That's key for the language we use with our audience (e.g. so "effect" is probably out). On the other hand, when someone talks to us, we need to look beyond their word choice and see the intent. If they're being rude, then reacting like Bill says is appropriate. If they really are interested and polite, but they used a word you don't like, you can let them know that their language bothers you, but you shouldn't give them a hard time because of your problem. Right on Rafa. Jester |
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MarkFarrar Veteran user U.S.A. 376 Posts |
Whilst I agree that you shouldn't correct a spectator for their use of the word "trick" (or any other such word), I have to agree that I dislike the words "trick" and "effect".
There are plenty of alternatives available - depending on the context, you could use creating a moment of wonder, experiment, illusion - but isn't this where we, as magicians, get hung up? If our set / act ocmprises several routines, then we feel a need to use a different way of describing each one, because we don't want to use the word "trick", "effect" or anything else six or seven times. Do the spectators or audience care? I suspect not!
Mark S. Farrar
Email: [email]MarkFarrar@TheMagicCircle.co.uk[/email] Web: www.MagicSquaresBook.com, www.RandMPublishing.com, www.TheDailyGoalMachine.com, www.ParvoBuster.com |
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RayBanks Special user Nassau Bay, TX 533 Posts |
I have always said:
A spectator calls them tricks, A magician calls them effects, When I do one right I call it a miracle!
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Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one Ray Banks |
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El_Lamo Special user Canada 589 Posts |
"Can you show me a trick?"
I'd love to entertain you! Cheers - El Lamo
Life is a system of circumstance presented coincidently in an illusory way.
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James Peters Veteran user Romford, UK 385 Posts |
Quote:
A spectator calls them tricks, That's pretty good! Can I steal it?? James. |
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RayBanks Special user Nassau Bay, TX 533 Posts |
Sure, why not?
Have fun with it, I do. Yes I have said those words as part of a performance.
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Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one Ray Banks |
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MattWayne Special user Manhattan, NY | Studio City, CA 624 Posts |
"Can you show me a trick?"
I'd love to entertain you! by El_Lamo That's a good response- that needs no further explanation. Because that's what we do- entertain. Thanks for all the posts:) Tomasko
Matt Wayne
The Celebrity Magicianâ„¢ www.CelebrityMagician.com / youtube.com/celebritymagician / twitter.com/RealMattWayne / Facebook.com/CelebrityMagician Creator of, 'Got a Light?' and others. Spokesperson behind, TouchTricks |
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JEFFC New user RI 70 Posts |
I don't have a problem with anyone using the word trick, but I tend to stay away from it for some reason. I have asked if someone would like to see some "magic". Once or twice people seem to have thought I might intend to turn them into something unnatural.
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Scott Ocheltree Veteran user 364 Posts |
You say po-tay-to,
I say po-tah-to... yawn... |
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Ciigam New user Lagos, Nigeria. 2 Posts |
Well, the word "trick" used to make me sort of uneasy coming from the audience.With so many books and lately videos and vcds revealing the secrets of magic a lot of people have come to think of the whole business as full of tricks.So basically I just concentrate on putting up a fabulous show, my own way and style. Frankly, I device my own "illusions" using traditional methods while whipping up some words borrowed from history, like when I do varnishing effects, I usually start with references to the Bermuda triangle, but continue by saying that I can't really explain what is actually responsible for the mystery but that while I was thinking about it I came upon a plausible explanation.That's when I go into the science bit about the earths' magnetic currents ect, all the while continuing my moves.I keep the talk relatively short and let the power of the mystery/myth work for me.
Get my drift? No matter the effect you intend to bring about there's always a myth or legend that can be woven into it. Then again, don't worry too much, just concentrate on putting up a great show.And of course don't forget that very valueable magical tool "misdirection".I can say that it's one of my really strong points.I always try to see my illusions from the point of view of the audience.If they don't really know when an effect took place, it really helps.You have to be a really good actor.You really have to appear to believe in what you are doing but in the final analysis, don't take yourself too seriously or you'd easily get hurt when someone refers to your act as a trick. Also I've discovered that when I amaze someone and he/she asks me how I did it or draws someone else's attention to me I just tell the next person not to believe what the first person said.I'd say "afterall, how is it possible for such and such to happen?".And then that really get's them going and then they think and say that I'm just being too modest, then go on to beg for just one shot.So, after a while, I may (or may not depending on how I feel ) perform for them after making them promise not to tell anyone what I am about to do.Of course afterwards they spread the word and I get to know when others look at me somewhat differently from how they used to or when they outrightly ask me to perform the next time they see me. I am never in a hurry to perform. I'm always cool and confident without of course exhibiting any form of egocentricity. So just concentrate, perform and enjoy yourself. Ciigam.
To amuse and amaze.
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
I think "laymen" takes the word "trick" as another word for magic that is entertaining. I believe that there is no malice in the word "Trick" as far as they are concerned.
Magicians specially new magicians seem to be bothered by this. Almost like it is a degrading term to use for the art. It is almost like a guilty response. I have heard great magicians like Cervon, Colombini etc... use this word comfortably. The result is just as amazing. Well in their hands , they actually seem like miracles. I try to avoid the word "trick" if I'm doing stuff like "Mystery Box", "Out of this World",... you know the MORE serious ones. If I'm doing Packet stuff , I have no Problem saying...." Here's a nice trick / here's a quick trick/ let me show you the first trick I learned..." etc,etc. just my thoughts PEACE! Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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radiantentertainment Regular user Donald Collins 112 Posts |
If someone requests a trick at a opportune time I will perform a effect. If someone declares for me to perform a trick I say " I am not a juke box, You do not put a quarter in me, press 5306, and hear Freebird". This gains a laugh and lets the person know that they could have been more polite. Sometimes I may even continue by saying "Whats the magic word?". Please is the word of course.
I often suggest that the person who requested the magic come see me perform at _________ restaurant on __________ between ___pm and ___pm. I do this in a joking way but it also lets them know magic is my job. I'm also plugging my restaurants. I have already gained several laughs without one effect. Then I typically perform a quick effect. This is the beginners thread though so you may not have the chance to say the last line though. These people are not trying to be rude so all of this is presented very tongue in cheek. Don't take yourself to seriously. These people are used to someone who knows some tricks shoving them down their throat. They think that they are doing you a favor by giving you a intro to perform. They "know" you want to do a trick, so take it easy on them. I still like to attempt to educate them to some degree, but I don't want them to be shy of my magic either. On to the point of only performing when you are getting paid. If this is what you choose it is your choice to make. When I was a cook I would invite friends over for a meal to be friendly and social. I may not have been paid in a monetary way but it has its benefits. Should the word trick be refined? Do you want to amuse or astonish? I know it is only a word but it sets the stage for your whole presentation. A dog does tricks. A prankster does tricks. A trickster does clever tricks to amuse. A magician should do feats to astonish. I never use the term trick. I either do a demonstration, stunt, experiment, or the such. If you offer to provide a trick you are saying there is a trick to catch on to. Saying trick may also remind the spectator of trick cards, trick coins, or the such. If you want the most bang for your buck out of your magic I suggest reading "Magic and Showmanship, A Handbook for Conjurers" published by Dover written by Henning Nelms. As Bill Palmer mentioned "The Trick Brain" by Fitzkee comes highly recommended. It is high on my next to purchase list.
Life is not a dress rehearsal!
Less is more. & Knock'em dead! |
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Catmouth New user 63 Posts |
Effect is a way I like to describe it. I prefer manipulation over all, because that's actually what I am doing. But no way am I going to get into a debate about with someone hehe. And the effect is what I want to achieve.
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nakulshenoy New user Bangalore, India 91 Posts |
A very interesting question.
My good friend Solyl Kundu (of Kolkata, India) recently asked a similar question recently at another forum: "Why do we say 'trick' when we talk about magic. We all are magicians and not 'trickster'. We perform magic, isn't it? Then why we refer magic as 'trick'?" I feel Tomasko's question is related to this idea, and both warrant a thorough discussion and debate. Here is my two paisa worth: At the outset, I would tend to agree with Solyl who said that "calling magic a 'trick' puts our (magicians) prestige in stake". I guess the usage of the word trick is primarily because when we bagan to learn "Magic" we picked books that told us how to perform "magic tricks". When we went on to purchase props to perform "Magic," we began to get catalogues and price lists with a list of magic tricks that we could buy... and perform. And when we refer to the magic we perform, when we talk to other magicians, we are accustomed to ask, "So.. What's the latest trick you can show me?" or "So what's your latest trick?", etc. The above three factors seem to be overriding all others in our minds, and we unconsciously use our trade-speak, in our presentation / patter, and in our references to magic per se when we are discussing with lay people. I guess it is these very factors that have made the words "Trick" and "Magic" synonymous in our minds... and so we use them interchangeably... We forget that the lay people (our audience) does not see the two words in the same way... and thus inadvertently (unintentionally) reduce the impact of our Magic to them... I too am of the opinion that people are very much interested in watching and EXPERIENCING MAGIC, not so much at watching just tricks, which they feel is just a way of fooling them. In Solyl's very words lie the solution to this problem... We are MAGICIANS and not TRICKSTERS... which is what we will be if we are only showing tricks... Coming back to trade-speak, the tricks of our trade will remain just that -- TRICKS at best -- unless you add the magical element of PRESENTATION, to make it REALLY MAGICAL, and TOTALLY MESMERISING to the audience... After all, you want them to say... S/He is an exceptional magician... NOT s/he is an exceptional trickster! As I said... That was my 2 paisa worth... Looking forward to your comments. |
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