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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Patter for Mentalism (30 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MichaelCGM
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On Jul 26, 2016, Ben Blau wrote:
It's helpful to not be too preachy about it, though. Keep it light. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygyu9glfvU

-Ben


Just watched this. Very nicely done, Ben.
Magically Yours,

Magical Michael

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nhanna
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Caleb, I have to agree whole heartedly with Sbays on this one. If you are having trouble wrestling with distinguishing between Mentalism as a performance and what people's pre-existing beliefs are, and how they perceive it and or feeling some guilt about it, than you my friend and no offense at all have no place in Mentalism. Mentalism at the end of the day is an entertainment and if you have a hard time with how an audience perceives it than don't do it. I have not been around Mentalism for very long but I have been around the best in the field and I consider my mentor the best in the field, but I know even in my novice stage in the game that playing as if it were real is no different than a Magician who suspend audience members beliefs and makes wonders come to life on stage. At the end of the day it is about the entertainment and I was told this once before and it is a very true statement that "no one wants to go see the fake mind reader"; Staying true to the art and performance of that art means you are an actor playing that role. Besides you are not up there talking to anyones dead relatives or giving aura baths, you are a performer in a very special art that plays strongly to audience members. Show some respect to the art and perform it they way it is meant to be performed.

There is actually a youtube channel where there is a user who believes that Magicians can not possibly do what they do without the help of demons and witchcraft, and I am not kidding either, but I am using this as an example to show you that no matter what you tell someone at the end of the day they will believe what they want to believe.

The thing that makes Mentalism special and strong to people is that it is in the realm of possibility and since time immemorial humanity has believed in psychic phenomenon and many have experienced things that are psychic.

p.s. Listen to Sbays, if you lived anywhere in SoCal or have frequented the magic castle you would know the caliber he is at.It would be wise to listen and ponder on his advice.
friend2cptsolo
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, MichaelCGM wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, friend2cptsolo wrote:
Http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=198

Here is a discussion of Christian Mentalism ......
As a devout follower one can not support an art rooted in so much mysticism....so how to they resolve that? I think they a few things that might be of use to Caleb.


Actually, Christianity itself is based strongly on "mysticism."

Yes... it is.
Do they see it as mysticism?
friend2cptsolo
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What if you ever got into spoon bending??? How would you present that?
MichaelCGM
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, friend2cptsolo wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, MichaelCGM wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, friend2cptsolo wrote:
Http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=198

Here is a discussion of Christian Mentalism ......
As a devout follower one can not support an art rooted in so much mysticism....so how to they resolve that? I think they a few things that might be of use to Caleb.


Actually, Christianity itself is based strongly on "mysticism."

Yes... it is.
Do they see it as mysticism?


If they (we) don't, then there is something amiss.

mysticism - noun
belief that union with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or the spiritual apprehension of knowledge inaccessible to the intellect, may be attained through contemplation and self-surrender.

It is only through surrender to the Son of God that one can experience the Truths of God. One cannot serve God through intellect alone. But this is too likely to derail this thread, so I won't explore that aspect further. Thanks for asking, though.
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CalebRose
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Nhanna, I do not doubt Sbays expertise. I have a goal in what I wish to achieve and I believe I can do it. It may not be today but I am just gonna keep at it. I completely understand your argument, but I strongly believe there is a way I can do it without seeming supernatural. I have got some great advice so far and I think it will help me pursue my vision.

I do not intend to insult anybodies vision of Mentalism, I simply just wish to pursue my own. If it cannot be done I will readily accept that fact, but I intend to give it a serious try before I ever admit that it cannot be done or that I do not belong in mentalism.
MichaelCGM
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Check out Richard Osterlind's nonchalant approach.
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sbays
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, MichaelCGM wrote:
Check out Richard Osterlind's nonchalant approach.


Richard plays it as absolutely real. He just doesn't make direct claims such as he is psychic, or using telepathy etc. He lets them figure it out for themselves.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
MichaelCGM
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On Jul 26, 2016, sbays wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 26, 2016, MichaelCGM wrote:
Check out Richard Osterlind's nonchalant approach.


Richard plays it as absolutely real. He just doesn't make direct claims such as he is psychic, or using telepathy etc. He lets them figure it out for themselves.


I agree completely... he "doesn't make direct claims." That's the subtlety I spoke of earlier. I find that, with questions, rather than statements, one can avoid direct claims of the supernatural and still leave teh lay audience wondering. Shucks, everybody on the planet can relate to deja vu, which has no proven scientific explanation and no supernatural evidence either. People will believe that we all have some degree of unnatural ability, though varying from one person to another. Even the Bible accepts the ability to talk to the dead, and predict the future In fact, I use that line in my show. "I've been known to talk to the dead. It's just that no one ever answers." *badump bum*
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CalebRose
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I love that. that's great! That subtlety is perfect.
Alan Wheeler
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Can there be a premise for mentalism that is neither supernatural nor scientific?

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The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
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sbays
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On Jul 27, 2016, Alan Wheeler wrote:
Can there be a premise for mentalism that is neither supernatural nor scientific?

Check out Devil May Care


Mentalism at its core is mind reading as far as I am concerned. I see a distinct difference between doing mentalism, and using mentalism techniques for other purposes. But this can easily become an issue of semantics.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
IAIN
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, sbays wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, Alan Wheeler wrote:
Can there be a premise for mentalism that is neither supernatural nor scientific?

Check out Devil May Care


Mentalism at its core is mind reading as far as I am concerned. I see a distinct difference between doing mentalism, and using mentalism techniques for other purposes. But this can easily become an issue of semantics.


i would not recommend my latest release to Caleb - Caleb, if you are reading this, please do not buy it as its not suitable for you...i say this because I make it clear that I expect people to have a good knowledge of the classic texts in the blurb for it...and its also not about copying what I describe as the only other way to present mentalism either, I just talk about my own personal experience and how I create other ways to present it based on the individual's interests and points of view...just wanted to clear that up...

so are there ways to present it other than the two major ways - in my opinion, yes...but you need to understand classic mentalism first before making even baby steps towards anything else...
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Bill Cushman
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, IAIN wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, sbays wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 27, 2016, Alan Wheeler wrote:
Can there be a premise for mentalism that is neither supernatural nor scientific?

Check out Devil May Care


Mentalism at its core is mind reading as far as I am concerned. I see a distinct difference between doing mentalism, and using mentalism techniques for other purposes. But this can easily become an issue of semantics.


i would not recommend my latest release to Caleb - Caleb, if you are reading this, please do not buy it as its not suitable for you...i say this because I make it clear that I expect people to have a good knowledge of the classic texts in the blurb for it...and its also not about copying what I describe as the only other way to present mentalism either, I just talk about my own personal experience and how I create other ways to present it based on the individual's interests and points of view...just wanted to clear that up...

so are there ways to present it other than the two major ways - in my opinion, yes...but you need to understand classic mentalism first before making even baby steps towards anything else...


I'm not sure that I see it that way, Iain. I think you may be underestimating both DCM and Caleb.
jakeg
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I tell my audience that everyone has the ability to read minds, but just like playing music, some people have a greater aptitude for it than others. However, the more you practice, the better you become. However, the best that I an claim is 76 to 84% accuracy.
That not only takes me out of the ream of the supernatural, but gives me an out during my Q&A segment. When someone asks what lottery number is going tout, I tell them that if I knew that, what the heck would I be doing here?
yachanin
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If asked, I just say it is "secret knowledge." It's a true statement, yet allows them to wonder and speculate Smile

Regards, Steve
CalebRose
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Actually that's pretty Brilliant. Thanks Yachanin!
ibm_usa
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I think OP posted something that has been on our minds at one point in our life. I think it may stem from Magician's Guilt because IMHO and you can disagree with me and I won't argue against your HO but mentalism done right is far more deceptive and ballsy or both than your regular magic.
Here is a FACT of the Universe- everyone lies. I don't care who you are or what species you are - you have told a lie and you will continue to deceive others until the day you die. Lying or if I may be more descriptive - deception is found all over the Animal Kingdom

If you are worried about having people believe in what you do, mentalism may not be your best area. I perform as a psychological mentalist but I never use disclaimers per se. I personally find disclaimers to be a waste of time. I would much rather leave my audience feeling a bit more agnostic. My theme for my show is based on bettering yourself and your brain and endorse critical thinking in one of my routines.

I will say the same to those who want their audiences to believe definitively that what they present is real - mentalism is the wrong industry, go start a cult. I want the message behind my performance to change peoples lives - not the effect that helps tell the story.

Back to talking about lying - your routines should be the aid that helps you tell the story you're trying to tell. If you don't have a story to your show then you're just doing a string of demonstrations or tricks *gasp*.

If you work on your character and put a lot of effort on building that character - I'm sure the worry about lying will no longer be of issue.
"You may think that i only talk of things from the past, you know, history, well magic is history"

-Guy Jarrett

"Curiosity isn't a sin Harry, but it should be exorcised with great caution."

-Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
http://www.jordanallen-mentalist.webs.com/
PhilFlad
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Years ago, opening a magic show for a group of kindergartners I asked, "Do you know what a magician is?" Little girl seated on the carpet right in front of me said, "A magician is someone who helps us pretend." I had difficulty continuing. I now find as a mentalist that has become my subtext.
jstreiff
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As is so often the case, great truths from the mouths and minds of children.
John
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