Anyone ever had much luck with this one? (Described in Expert Card Technique - Hugard/Braue)

I'm running about 50% success, which really sucks (half the time anyway!). Probability would give me 20%, without an edge.

Any hints, tips, "wonder words" to improve the rate?

Is this the one where you give 5 cards to a spectator, ask him to think in one? Or another one? Could you describe the effect?

Make sure that you use Vernon's patter with it. By that I mean that you must stress that they take their time to make their decision. Go over each card and allow them to formulate their choice. This is a trick that only works if they really think out their choices and if they do, and if you lead them along properly (hence my suggestion you start to use Vernon's appter until it becomes ingrained on what to stress and where), it will work perfectly.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

gmartins: Yes, you lay out 5 specific cards (they THINK the cards are random). They mentally select one of them. You gather up the cards and place one face down on their hand. They name their card. Yours matches.

Paul: Vernon's patter only mentions two of the cards. The most common response I get is: "Well, when you mentioned the 7C, I figured you didn't want me to pick that one, so I did."

I do this trick quite often. I agree with thoghtreader that you must use Vernon's patter word for word. When I was using mu own patter, I could only get about 50%, now I am up to about 90% effective rate for the trick. As an out, I always I leave the other four cards on the table. If they don't name the 4H, I simple do a false count of the four remaining cards to show three, and then cop the selection that they did make, and produce it from my pocket. Thankfully, I don't have to do this very often.

I love this trick, just came across it a few months ago and have been very successful with it. I created an out with it just in case they don't pick the selected card. I use another trick by Walter Gibson from his "Popular Card Tricks" called A Mental Choice. If you would like to know this trick and how to add it to Vernon's just email me.

Doc Amazo,

Get a hold of "Vernon's Twenty Dollar Maunscript" where it has the patter you need to use. You will most likely find it easier to find the boolet titled "Early Vernon" where it contains this and other gems and best thing is the minimal cost for absolute miracles.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

I love this trick, just came across it a few months ago and have been very successful with it. I created an out with it just in case they don't pick the selected card. I use another trick by Walter Gibson from his "Popular Card Tricks" called A Mental Choice. If you would like to know this trick and how to add it to Vernon's just email me.

I have used it with Vernon's patter verbatim. I tried it several times and it wasn't a high enough percentage for me to actually use.

Interesting idea.....even more interesting when it works. But for me there are other ways to get a very similiar effect which are 100% (or very, very close). I will stick with those.

Have a look at Karl Fulves Self Working Close Up Card Magic p41 for alternative ways to finish off this trick. (An idea by Allan Slaight.) It is kind of like combining the Five Card Mental force with the Thought Stealer. Hope this helps.

Paul S

Jack Avis and Lewis Jones have just published a new book, 'Ahead Of The Pack'. In it, vetern card expert Jack Avis provides an extended treatise on the history of this effect, the variations (and discrepancies) which have been published, and his ownthoughts on getting a successful conclusion every time.

On my website, under Items To Buy, you can read a complete description of the book's contents if you're interested.

Paul--
Is the patter in the manuscript substantially different from that published in Hugard/Braue?

I would think if the patter is so critical, all sources would print it verbatim.

Concerning the patter in The Twenty Dollar Manuscript (aka Early Vernon) - When I first read this effect, I thought that the patter was all wrong. It seemed detrimental to the success of the thing. To say to the spectator, You might think I want you to choose the king, as it's the only court card - or mabey you think I want you to select this card as it's the only black card ... well I thought this line of patter was very suspect. As it turns out, I was right. On one of the Revelations videos, Vernon claims that he never used such patter at all! In fact, he admonishes Gary Oulette (who is demonstrating the effect), that the trick will not work if you use that patter. "Your doing the spectator's thinking for him, if you say those things!" - which is entirely correct. Another point that Vernon made, is that for the effect to work, it's best if you have some sort of wager on the outcome, even if it's just a dollar. Then the guy has a real interest in not letting you somehow controll his selection. He will then work through the various thought processes suggested by the patter, IN HIS OWN HEAD, and will most often, force the card on himself!

I've had limited success with this routine. I've had much better success with David Osterlind's "$100,000 Card Trick" (I think that's what it's called -- you can find it in 'Dynamic Mysteries'). I think Osterlind's version is more direct, and leaves you with more wiggle room if you get the card wrong. And when you hit, it's all the more miraculous, because your participant wasn't limited to just 5 cards. Also see Derren Brown's work on psychologically forcing a card -- although I've found his method to be less reliable than Osterlind's. That's partly owing to the very different nature of each effect.

Where is this trick in the book I cant find it?
Can you tell what page it is on?

Wikiro

Kou,

First of all it is Dick Osterlind, secondly, for his effect to work, your participant MUST believe that you really can read minds, otherwsie you do the effect a diservice and diminish the effect, in fact you actually just look as if you are fishing in that scenario. The Vernon Five Card force does not require your participant to beleive that you can in fact read minds and yet it still stuns.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat